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Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

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WarrenC

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Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 4:13 pm

Post Fri May 29, 2020 6:39 pm

Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

I'm having trouble understanding how and why tubular lock picks work? I follow the procedure, understand how the pick work, but can't wrap my head around the physics of it. Can someone explain the concept.
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Anarchy_won

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Post Fri May 29, 2020 6:49 pm

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

Welcome to the forum, Check out these animations they show how most locks work.

https://imgur.com/gallery/iyhqRvK
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edocdab

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Post Fri May 29, 2020 7:28 pm

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

This video has a transparent lock in it so you can see how it works if it's not clear from the animations. There are many others as well. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNXhKwiO1OA
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WarrenC

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Post Fri May 29, 2020 7:58 pm

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

I''ve watched numerous videos, but I still don't understand how and why the lockpicking tool pins push back to the shear line in varied amounts. Springs are all the same tension, DriverPin/KeyPin overall are all the same length, so I would expect the pins on the tool to slide back in equal amounts.
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edocdab

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Post Fri May 29, 2020 8:12 pm

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

Because of difference in friction. That comes from rotating the core as if it would open. One binds stronger than the others. So one pin doesn't want to move as easily as the others even though the springs are the same. The animations show that. It's why lockpicking works.
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10ringo10

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Post Sat May 30, 2020 7:55 pm

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

Its a kind of... magic
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L4R3L2

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Post Sun May 31, 2020 4:10 am

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

I think I understand where you're coming from. I understand how single pin picking a tubular lock works, just like normal picking. But, try oscillating the plug of a cylinder lock while picking and you'll always be losing the progress as the pins go back to their resting positions as soon as the tension is reversed. So, the question is, when using a tubular lock pick in a rocking/oscillating technique, why do the pins stay at the shear line when they reach it, even though the plug is moved back past the neutral position after each change in direction?
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femurat

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Post Sun May 31, 2020 5:26 am

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

Because each pin is kept at its depth by the friction of the wires. And, just to be clear, it doesn't work every time. You have to try and eventually reset the tool and try again.

Cheers :)
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edocdab

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Post Sun May 31, 2020 7:45 am

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

Indeed. The tool's wires don't get the resistance from friction for pins at the shear line, so if you stop tensioning and re-tension those wires push those pins back to shear. Other pins will bind and cause friction and place the other wires correctly. It's impressioning, if you need a search term for more info.
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WarrenC

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Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 4:13 pm

Post Sun May 31, 2020 5:40 pm

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

Let's see if my train of thought is on the right track. Did some more thinking about it. When the wires push down on both the key pins and driver pins initially, the key pins are blocking the shear line and the holes in the plug and shell are aligned at this point. The springs are able to push up on the stack, moving the wires back. This continues until the driver pins get stuck at the shear line (caused when the tool is rotated back and forth) and the spring stops pushing, and the wires stop moving. At the same time, the pin stacks (and holes) that are still aligned, continue moving until they too reach the shear line, and then they get hung up and stop moving as well. The back and forth movement is critical here because its this jiggling that causes the driver pins to get trapped. Am I close in my thinking?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun May 31, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

Correct!
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:02 am

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

Close, but not quite.

The tension on the pick should be just slightly more than the springs in the lock can push back. When the pick is turned, if the key pin is blocking the shear line (binding), then it will torque/shift very slightly , exerting more pressure on the pick at that location than the friction, forcing that arm of the pick back slightly. When the key pin is at the shear line, then it does not get torqued/shifted by the differences at the shear line, so the pins are not torques/shifted. Therefore the pick is not moved at that location.

Using a tubular lock still takes a little practice. You need to adjust the nut just right for that particular lock.

Also, some of the better tubular locks will use multiple strengths of springs, so no one setting will be right for all the springs. That makes it more difficult to use a tubular lock pick.

If you make and use a manual tubular lock tensioner/turning tool, then the spring differences won't affect picking.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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L4R3L2

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Post Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:15 am

Re: Can someone explain HOW tubular lock picks work

GWiens2001 wrote:Close, but not quite.

The tension on the pick should be just slightly more than the springs in the lock can push back. When the pick is turned, if the key pin is blocking the shear line (binding), then it will torque/shift very slightly , exerting more pressure on the pick at that location than the friction, forcing that arm of the pick back slightly. When the key pin is at the shear line, then it does not get torqued/shifted by the differences at the shear line, so the pins are not torques/shifted. Therefore the pick is not moved at that location.



Aha! Something wasn't quite adding up before. Now it makes sense. Thank you!

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