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Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

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CPT1911

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Post Thu May 29, 2014 12:49 pm

Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

I haven't seen much discussion of 4-wheel locks in this forum so I thought you might find a 4-wheel post interesting.

S&G 6731 4-Wheel Group 2


Image

Design: The 4-wheelers I have been working with are both S&G 6731's. This is simply their 6730 with an additional wheel stuffed in there. I think that there is something "cooler" about a 4-wheel lock that goes beyond just being "different" from what I am used to. I am not an expert in lock history, but it seems that the 4 and even 5-wheel locks harken back to safes 100+ years ago. The difference between the 4-wheel and 3-wheel is immediately noticeable by the increased thickness of the lock body. The back is significantly thicker and adds the volume required to make room for the additional wheel.

Image
A 3-wheel 6730 (left) vs. 4-wheel 6731 (right)


Image
Thick stack! (left). The 4-wheel's thicker back makes room for the extra wheel (right)


Security: Because of the increased number of spins (and it can get a little confusing!), I initially questioned the value of a 4-wheel Group 2 versus a 3-wheel 2M or Group 1 in today's market. Why sell a 4-wheel Group 2 when a 3-wheel 2M or Group 1 is much harder to manipulate open? I assume it is because of the threat of the autodialer. While a 3-wheel lock theoretically has 1 million possibilities, a 4-wheel theoretically has 100 MILLION possibilities! So besides the cool factor of the 4-wheel, it clearly offers significantly greater resistance to the autodialer.

Dialing Sequence: The 6731 dialing sequence is 5R, 4L, 3R, 2L, right to drop in. After the first wheel is set, you can basically think of it like a regular 3-wheel lock. The 4-wheel is GREAT for training you to park wheels and keep track of things in your head. For me, this is the most enjoyable aspect. It gets particularly tricky when you start parking multiple wheels in one direction. Imagine the following sequence: R11- L35 - L22 - L46. Lot's of extra dialing!

Strategy: I have found that my 4-wheel locks are more consistent about giving up more than one gate on a single AWx spin. Whereas I have very few 3-wheel locks that will read two gates on one graph, the 4-wheels consistently read two, even after many combo trials. As you will see momentarily, this one actually read all 4-wheels in two graphs! No brute force necessary! That's never happened before, and it made it an even cooler open that I am excited to share! On that point, if ever there was a time when it is better NOT to brute force the first wheel, this is it! Thank your lucky stars if you can find W1 in your graphing, because brute forcing wheel one = wrist pain. One other point on finding the correct wheel for each gate: Hi/Low testing has worked MUCH more consistently for me on the 4-wheel locks than the 3-wheelers. I have a few theories on why, but they are just theories. The good news is this seems to be a pretty consistent rule on the 4-wheel. This one was opened without any complex wheel isolation work.

Note: Everyone knows I hate graphing, but recently I've run accross locks that I simply cannot keep track of in my head. That got me looking for a better way to graph. Anyway, I've started using Excel and letting it do the work for me. It also makes it much easier to make changes, fix things, etc. Hope you guys don't mind the graph screenshots! I also don't have Oldfast's crazy neat handwriting! :D


Search 1: AWL
Purpose: Find initial gate indication(s)


I chose an AWL approach for this lock. I had just mounted it and this was my first attempt at manipulating this particular S&G 6731. I was excited to see if it behaved like the other S&G 6731 in my collection.

Image


I was very pleased by this first graph. It was very clear that I had a gate at L46 and L22. The other drop-offs seemed like they might indicate a gate, but for now, I was happy to do a Hi/Low for these first two indications and hopefully move forward with two confirmed gates.

4-wheel Hi/Lows are fun. Like I said, you get good at keeping track of the number of spins you've completed and where the gates are parked.

Image

Unmistakable, text book indication for W4 at L46. LOVE doing Hi/Lows on the 4-wheel! Now for L22...

Image

Again, a clean result for W3 at L22. I converted this to R20.5 as it will be dialed right when testing combos.

So Far: Rx - Lx - R20.5 - L46


Search 2: W1 & W2 LA, W3 R20.5, W4 L46
Purpose: Find a gate on W1, W2, or both


There is a debate on whether it is better to move one wheel or two wheels when starting the second graph. For example, on a 3-wheel lock, if you have a known gate at W3=L50, some folks would go W1 & W2 RA, W3 L50, others would park W1 at L50 and search W2 by itself. On the one hand, parking W1 removes the additional variable that it adds to your readings, and ensures that any gate you find will belong to W2. On the other hand, it is possible that W1 should read next, or creates a large shadow at L50 that hides W2 anyway. Not sure if one is truly better than the other, but I typically start out moving two wheels together. If I don't find anything, I park W1 at the lowest point I found during that search, and search W2 again. Seems to work for me. In this case, I moved W1 and W2 together and it paid off bigtime!

Image


The only problem with this graph is that it appeared to have four gates instead of two! I was pretty puzzled by this and was starting to question my sanity. It was about 1AM at this point so I truly think I was seeing gates that weren't there. I dunno. The good news is that the real gates were the most prominent. I started out by testing L11.

Image


This test suggested that L11 was on W1, but the other Hi/Lows were so dramatic that I decided it would be better to focus on the L35 indication. I wasted some time testing some trial combos using L25 and L62, but wasn't getting anywhere. I decided to test L35 next.

Image


BOOM! I didn't even do the Hi test because I knew I had my gate.

Almost there: Rx - L35 - R20.5 - L46


Normally, I would start bruteforcing if I had no other indications, but the ghost gates on my second graph were beckoning too me. "Trevor," they said in a strange, high-pitched voice that was coming from my cat, "do some trial combinations...you might not need to brute force us..." I nodded skeptically at that cat and began with L11 (R8) on W1.

OPEN: R8 - L35 - R20.5 - L46

Really pleased with this one. I've never had all the gates come out in the graph. As you've noticed, I've started using a manifying glass with a magnetic base and an LED light. It works wonders and I think it allows me to pick up a lot more. Mine has a magnetic base so it can stick to a safe, but it comes with the little metal clamp base which works perfectly on my lock stands.

Hope you enjoyed this one, because I sure did! Take care, fellas.
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flywheel

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Post Thu May 29, 2014 1:04 pm

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Thank god the first number was 8 and not 98, but then again you're hearing voices telling you what to try.
Good job!
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shadowlock

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Post Thu May 29, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Awesome post!...I really enjoyed it. Can't wait to be that skilled. Good job buddy. Hey! I really like that excel graph. Looks like it makes the graph easier to read.

Rick
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LockManipulator

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Post Fri May 30, 2014 7:36 am

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Wow! Great post! Thank you for this! And great job on manipulating it too :)
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mercurial

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Post Fri May 30, 2014 9:19 am

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Great manipulation, well done & thanks for sharing!

My only 4 wheel lock is a big, heavy antique S&G roller bolt style, with a gravity driven fence. It is well beyond my abilities at present. It has the most subtle & mushy contact points I've ever come across, by a LONG way, and it has 'corrugated' wheel edges - there are shallow grooves, about as wide as the fence, all the way around each wheel.

I have recently relocated & it is packed away. I will post gut shots, after I get a chance to unpack & clean the old beast.

On the subject of comparative security against autodiallers, I would agree that a 4 wheel Group 2 lock would be seen as more secure than a 3 wheel Group 1 lock - at least in the early days of autodialler technology becoming available.

However, the new generation of autodiallers, such as the Softdrill, would render a 4 wheel Group 2 lock little more secure than a 3 wheel version of the same lock. Perhaps the fairly recently designed Group 2M locks, specifically the LaGard & the S&G are at least in part a direct response to this threat? The Group 2M locks would force the Softdrill to resort to a brute force search of the wheel pack.

For those who haven't heard of it, the Softdrill is an 'intelligent' autodialler, that manipulates safe locks by using the same principles that people use, only much faster (than *most* people, Oldfast notwithstanding!).

...Mark
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CPT1911

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Post Fri May 30, 2014 12:16 pm

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Hi Mercurial,

Great response, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I saw a video of the softdrill in operation once, although I don't remember where. You are right--it mostly follows the same principles that we do in manipulation, although I believe it carefully chooses the lowest possible point to park wheels not being tested. Very interesting!

Drag that old S&G 4-wheel out and open it for us!

Trevor
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Squelchtone

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Post Fri May 30, 2014 12:33 pm

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Excellent post as always, very nicely done!

How do you make those very nice graphs on the computer? That can't be done in Excel can it?!

congrats on the open,
Squelchtone
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CPT1911

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Post Fri May 30, 2014 2:03 pm

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Squelchtone wrote:How do you make those very nice graphs on the computer? That can't be done in Excel can it?!


Hi Squelch! Yessir, all done in Excel. PM me if you want the source file. Same goes for anyone else!

You have to make minor adjustments each time you use it, but the shell is there for you if you want it.

Trevor
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Fri May 30, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

OUTSTANDING! Absolutely LOVE the way you laid it out. BEAUTIFUL pics & graphs, really.

I was able to follow along as if I were right beside you. Very exciting. Stellar spinnin' my friend :spinning:
And I gotta say... I'm a bit jealous! I haven't spun a 4-wheel lock yet. Although, I once went 4-wheelin'
on a 3-wheeler by mistake, HA! But that's about it. I look forward to it though & it's really nice to gain
some of your insight and experience for whenever I do finally get myself a couple of em'. Thanks!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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femurat

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Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:56 am

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Well done Trevor! I have carefully read your post and enjoyed it very much. As Oldfast said, it was like seeing you spinning :mrgreen:
About your technique, I also like to move all wheels together at first, and then park the first indicating one at its gate and move the other two (or three) around.
If wheel #2 indicates first, then I may check wheel #1 alone and park wheel #2 at his known gate and leave wheel #3 (and #4) there too. The reason is it's a lot faster dialing this way, I'm not afraid of hi-low tests.

Cheers :)
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Mikeh727

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Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:24 am

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

WOW Trevor, Great work! And the write up is excellent...very informative and entertaining to read all at the same time. I've never played with a four wheeler before, and this is motivating me to try and get my hands on one. I love the graphing with excel too. I assume that cuts down on the time it takes to graph? I'll have to send a PM to get the source file. Thanks for making it available.

And thanks for posting the opening...very cool and interesting!

-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
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mercurial

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Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:29 am

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

image.jpg


Does this 4 wheel lock use indirect drive?

Looking at the picture of the 6730 back to back with the 6731, showing the difference in thickness, the dials seem to be located in the same position relative to the lock casing, so I would assume the cams of both are directly driven by the dial & spindle assembly. All 6700 series locks I have come across have been direct drive.

However, on closer inspection of one of the gut shots, I can see two intermeshing gears, one under the wheel pack & of similar diameter to the wheels, and another linked to it towards the left.

What are these cogs/gears?

...Mark
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CPT1911

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Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:36 pm

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

mercurial wrote:However, on closer inspection of one of the gut shots, I can see two intermeshing gears, one under the wheel pack & of similar diameter to the wheels, and another linked to it towards the left.

What are these cogs/gears?


Hi Mercurial. Current production 6730, 6731, 6630, and 6631 (others maybe) use S&G's torque adjuster to maintain wheel pack tension. What you are seeing is the edge of the geared plate that rests beneath the wheel pack. A small gear to the left (not visible) can be turned with an allen wrench to adjust wheel pack tension. It's kind of an odd device--you sort of have to see it to visualize how it works. Fundamentally, it replaces the tension washer you would find on 6741s and older 6700 series. Locks equipped with the torque adjuster can be adjusted to run with very minimal dial friction and dialed very quickly. S&G has a spec for this adjustment, however, which I think is measured in inch-ounces LOL. Pretty lightly torqued, to say the least.

Hope that helps.
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escher7

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Post Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:21 am

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Safe work is in my future but whenever I see a concise and well documented post like this, I use the "url to pdf" app on my Blackberry Playbook and convert the pages to a pdf for filing away until needed. There are also websites that do the same conversion. eg:
http://pdfmyurl.com/

This is definitely a keeper.
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mercurial

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Post Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:40 am

Re: Let's go 4-wheelin' (S&G 6731)

Thankyou for clarifying that, Trevor!

I'd heard of the torque adjuster, but never seen a lock with it, or pictures of it before. You explained it very well, I get the idea & a good mental image of the implementation now.

...Mark

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