Pro Locksmith advice.

[s1deshowmick]

I have been trying to decide if it would be feasible to take the Professional locksmiths course at Lockmasters Security Institute in Kentucky USA.

The idea is:

Go to the USA and do some quality locksmith courses.
Gain my locksmith license.
Use this qualification to allow me to be assessed in Australia by the MLAA. If applicable
Be gainfully employed as a locksmith, in the US, or for a company here in Australia.Yay.

Sounds great in theory, but I’m sure there’s more to it than that.
I do plan on calling them (LSI) and asking them some questions, but I would like some advice from some pro US based lockies first, such as,

Does the completion of the pro locksmith course at LSI automatically qualify a participant as a licenced locksmith?

If not, is there a next step/ what is the next step?

As I stated earlier, I will call them, but I find mostly that people that own or run these types of businesses tend to butter them up and smooth over some of the details to get you in there. This is fine, unless you live on the other side of the planet.

I know the question will be asked, why don’t you just do it in your own damn country?
Well the answer is,

You need an employer that will take you on as a trainee or apprentice if you can find one. These are as rare as rocking horse sh!t.( 4 year apprenticeship in Australia)

And as a 42 year old, no one wants to take you on anyway. The adult apprenticeship board here in Australia, told me to “forget it, your to old”. Well you can probably imagine the response he got.

Sorry for the long winded intro, but any advice/comment would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks fellas,

Mick

[loki]

As far as completion of a course as satisfying a licence requirement, that will vary greatly as predominately, US states and some cities/towns
regulate and licence locksmiths- no US Federal licence.

[s1deshowmick]

As far as completion of a course as satisfying a licence requirement, that will vary greatly as predominately, US states and some cities/towns
regulate and licence locksmiths- no US Federal licence.

OH, i wasn't expecting that.
So in some states you don't even need a licence?
Thanks for the speedy reply

[the lockpickkid]

Very few states here in the U.S. require a license, off the top of my head, California is one of the strict ones, they require all sorts of garbage. It's the same here as far as finding employment in the field. There isn't many people getting these jobs, most lockies here won't even give you the time of day. Lockmasters is a great school, I actually was trained in some things through a company I worked for using there stolen materials and they go through alot of detail in there training which is better than most. Just because you go to there school doesn't really mean anything at all, it may open some doors for you, but no guarantee at all, after all the money and time you will spend, you may just go broke. I don't mean to be so negative, but this job field looks real bleak, those who are in seem to be making somewhat of a living, but there are lots right now who are selling out, not a good time to look for employment in this trade. I have a feeling you would have the same luck here as you do now there, but I think things will get better, they can't get much worse.

[s1deshowmick]

Your not being negative, i appreciate all aspects of advice and opinion mate.
I don't mind spending the money on quality training anywhere for anything, it always produces results, maybe not straight away, but you can bet your ass that it will produce an opportunity at some time.

I don't think the current economic situation in the US will last for ever, I remember our last recession very well, interest rates at 18% and all that, it does get better you guy's, just hang in there.

I have always wanted to be a lockie, and I've decided that i can't operate bulldozers and front end loaders for the rest of my life, even if it is a guaranteed source of income, it hurts to damn much in the mornings these days.

I have scoured our government websites for any information on the licence requirements for locksmiths, and i keep getting the same answer:
There is no legal requirement for licensing or registration for this occupation in Western Australia!!!!
I'm just about ready to turn myself inside out. I'm not sure which way to go from here?
Thanks for your input mate, it does help.

[Warder]

IMHO,

If you regularly make money locksmithing, you are a locksmith.

That being said, you may be a hobby locksmith, a part-time locksmith, a certified licensed locksmith, a lock collector locksmith, a licensed safe tech locksmith, a key duplicator locksmith, a door opener installer locksmith, an auto opener locksmith, a bypass locksmith, and so on and so on....

The opportunities never cease!

The locksmith trade, like carpentry or driving a vehicle, has many branches. Some locksmithing branches are regulated under law and others are not.
People need different drivers licenses depending where you live and what you drive.

There are many great doctors who drive cabs, just because of licensing.

[Jimmy-slim-smith]

Well,, yea,, each state has it own laws about locksmithing, Recently here in oregon things are changing, you will soon only need a contractors lisense, for working on commercial building or residential,,,as for auto you dont need anything for opening or working on autos, ......
the PLA {pasific locksmith asso} is working with aloa to make a "real" apprentiship, but that wont be for another couple years but it in the works, ........

thought this was interesting,,, I guess you are not supposed to be working at all as a locksmith if you dont have the paper work,

Oregon House Bill 3127
75th OREGON LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY--2009 Regular Session Enrolled House Bill 3127 Sponsored by COMMITTEE ON BUSINESS AND LABOR CHAPTER ................ AN ACT Relating to locksmithing; and declaring an emergency. Be It Enacted by the People of the State of Oregon:

SECTION 1. { + Sections 2 to 5 of this 2009 Act are added to and made a part of ORS chapter 701. + }

SECTION 2. { + As used in sections 2 to 5 of this 2009 Act: (1) 'Key' means a mechanical, electromechanical, electronic, electromagnetic or other device for operating a lock. (2) 'Lock' means a mechanical, electromechanical, electronic, electromagnetic or other device that is designed to control access from one area to another or control the use of a device in a structure or vehicle. (3) 'Locksmith' means a person who services, installs, repairs, rebuilds, rekeys, repins or adjusts locks, hardware peripheral to locks, safes, vaults, safe deposit boxes or mechanical or electronic security systems. + }

SECTION 3. { + (1) An individual may not undertake, offer to undertake or submit a bid to do work as a locksmith for compensation, or with the expectation to be compensated, unless the individual is certified as a locksmith under section 4 of this 2009 Act by the Construction Contractors Board and is an owner of, or employed by, a business that is licensed by the board. (2) A business may not undertake, offer to undertake or submit a bid to provide locksmith services unless the business is licensed by the board under this chapter and has an owner or an employee who is certified as a locksmith under section 4 of this 2009 Act. (3) A person may not use the title of locksmith, locksmith professional, commercial locksmith, lock installer or any title using a form of the word 'locksmith' that indicates or tends to indicate that the person is a locksmith or provider of locksmith services unless the person is certified as a locksmith by the board or is a business licensed by the board that has an owner or employee who is certified by the board as a locksmith. (4) A person may not use any sign, card or device that indicates or tends to indicate that the person is a locksmith or provider of locksmith services unless the person is certified as a locksmith by the board or is a business licensed by the board that has an owner or employee who is certified by the board as a locksmith. + }

SECTION 4. { + (1) The Construction Contractors Board shall adopt rules establishing minimum standards of practice and Enrolled House Bill 3127 (HB 3127-B) Page 1 professional conduct for locksmiths and businesses that provide locksmith services. (2) The board shall require that an applicant for certification as a locksmith pass a test demonstrating the competency of the applicant to act as a locksmith. (3) The board may adopt rules to regulate the practice of locksmithing, including but not limited to rules: (a) Accepting the results of competency testing by a nationally recognized certification program for locksmiths; (b) Establishing requirements for the issuance or renewal of a locksmith certificate, including but not limited to training and continuing education requirements; (c) Establishing standards of professional conduct for certified locksmiths; and (d) Establishing fees necessary for the administration of sections 2 to 5 of this 2009 Act that do not exceed the following amounts: (A) $100 for application. (B) $100 for testing. (C) $300 for issuance of an initial two-year certificate. (D) $300 for renewal of a two-year certificate. (4) The board shall adopt rules establishing procedures for the issuance, renewal and revocation of a locksmith certificate. (5) The board may suspend or revoke a locksmith certificate if the locksmith: (a) Fails to comply with a continuing education requirement established by the board; or (b) Violates a standard of professional conduct for certified locksmiths established by board rule. + }

SECTION 5. { + Sections 3 and 4 of this 2009 Act do not apply to: (1) A person offering key duplication services at a fixed location or ancillary to other business activities, if the person does not undertake, offer to undertake or submit a bid to undertake other locksmith services; (2) An individual performing work within the scope of a license described in ORS 479.905 to 479.945; (3) A tow truck operator performing work for a towing business certified under ORS 822.205; (4) A construction contractor licensed under this chapter or an owner, officer or employee of the licensed construction contractor, when acting within the scope of the contractor's license, if the contractor, owner, officer or employee does not hold out as a provider of locksmith services; (5) Work performed by a manufacturer on a manufactured structure, modular building or structure or prefabricated structure that is or was produced by the manufacturer; (6) A property owner or regular employee of the property owner, when performing work on the property; (7) A property management company or the regular employee of a property management company, when performing work on the managed property; (8) A real estate property manager as defined in ORS 696.010, or the employee of a property manager, performing work in the course of managing rental real estate; (9) A landlord or landlord's agent, both as defined in ORS 90.100; (10) A manufacturer of locks; or (11) A person performing work as the representative of a manufacturer, wholesaler, distributor or retailer of locks. + } Enrolled House Bill 3127 (HB 3127-B) Page 2

SECTION 6. { + (1) The locksmith certification requirement established under section 3 of this 2009 Act applies to locksmith work performed on or after July 1, 2010. The requirement established under section 3 of this 2009 Act that a business providing locksmith services have an owner or an employee who is a certified locksmith becomes operative July 1, 2010. (2) The Construction Contractors Board shall make certification as a locksmith available for qualified applicants no later than January 1, 2010. + }

SECTION 7. { + This 2009 Act being necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health and safety, an emergency is declared to exist, and this 2009 Act takes effect on its passage. + }

Passed by House June 24, 2009

Speaker of House Passed by Senate June 27, 2009 ..

President of Senate Enrolled House Bill 3127 (HB 3127-B) Page 3 Received by Governor: 2009 Approved:

Governor Filed in Office of Secretary of State:

[jailersmith]

Thank you Jimmy-slim-smith, for posting Oregon H.B.3127. I served a State of Oregon sanctioned locksmith apprenticeship in 1974. That program was abandoned when funding disapeared a year later. Still working at the same commercial Lockshop I was now a warehouse supervisor trainee, still cutting keys and pinning locks, go figure. When I retired from State Corrections in 2002 I was doing lock and key work in an institution. While no one can take the knowledge away from you, the Legislators can restrict your ability to perform in this field. My point being, things will always change, especially from your original plan. I stayed in the Security field so I could have access to locksmithing work and training. This meant the title of Locksmith came and went over the years. My focus was to do locksmith work and to never, ever violate the locksmith trade ethics. I took a correspondence course while serving in the Air Force, to open doors. This certificate showed my willingness to learn, hope this helps.

[the lockpickkid]

Well guys, I am in Oregon as well as the both of you, I have a registered business for doing lockouts and misc stuff, they can't stop me from working, despite what it says about a contractors license, very few of the locksmiths in this state have one.

[s1deshowmick]

You made a great point , but i do not break the law here by doing certain locksmith type jobs.
Lockout and Automotive work is another story altogether here, you don't need any licensing or registration(except for a business name & an ABN-Australian business number)

[s1deshowmick]

There are many great doctors who drive cabs, just because of licensing.

These people are the ones who give it away because it's to hard, or just never really wanted to do it anyway.

Why else would you give up?

[Warder]

Just as an aside,

People often move to new areas with little cash.
In order to become certified in the new area, certain courses and tests must be passed.
These tests cost money, and the easiest way to attain the money is to take a low level job with minimum job requirements.
Thus begins the cycle of 'someday I'll get certified....'
So, 'newcomers' are already behind the eight ball in a dog-eat-dog competitive environment.
Even if you are passionate about your chosen field, It might take a long time and much work to become legally able do it.
Those of us who have the opportunity should recognize and take advantage of what so many strive towards.

[s1deshowmick]

Very true mate, you can get stuck in that rut easily.

I wish you could have been at the lock shop i drove for an hour to get to today,(this is the closest) after they called me this morning to tell me my order had arrived and i can pick it up.
When i got there i was told it wasn't quite ready and, if i could give them a few hours and then swing by and grab it. Not to happy, but what the hell, I'll take the little lady shopping.
3 and a half hours later i walked back into the lock shop, firstly, they tried to give me a padlock and key which would have been master keyed to the local Mcdonalds, Unruffled, the bloke walks into the back of the shop and disappears for 5 minutes, returns out the front and Say's "oh, we don't have your stuff, um can't find it"
He then asked me if i wanted anything else?
I very politely told him to stick my order up his ass, and left.

I don't care how long it takes, i will be a good locksmith.

[john-locksmith]

thats what we call confidence i dont think you are too old that you cant become a good locksmith

[s1deshowmick]

thats what we call confidence i dont think you are too old that you cant become a good locksmith

Thanks mate, I just like to do what i set out to do, makes the end result all the sweeter.