Taking the plunge into safe work could use some advice *help

[machinist]

Well I'm getting tired of opening the home depot/walmart/officemax sentry safes in 4 minutes and my main source of work has told me we are gonna get some real safe jobs in volume sooner or later so now I guess I gotta learn. I'd appreciate some advice on tools and equipment I need to get so far I have:

1 7mm scope with 90 degree view
1/4"-5/16"- 1/2" carbide safe bits
Bosche hammer drill

I'm told we are going to get a lot of gun safes standing style in the 200-300 lb range

[Squelchtone]

My only contribution is that your scope is a wee bit big.. a 1/4 inch hole is what I hear all professional safe men tend to drill so you will need a scope that can fit in a 1/4 inch hole which is going to need a 6mm scope. I've wanted to get the video scope from Home Depot route but their tips are too big, and a Hawkeye rigid scope costs $700 dollars, so I don't have a scope myself, but hoping to buy one later this year. This is probably the most affordable video scope with < 6mm head that I could find: http://www.homedepot.com/p/General-Tool ... ga9c1Ge1bw

There are some made in china scopes on ebay, but I have found that most do not include a 90 degree mirror though.

Get the Dave McOmie books from Lockmasters, they're an education in themselves. Also, I know drilling is fast and all, but you'll impress a lot of customers when you walk up and manipulate open their safe without drilling, so I recommend an S&G 6730 practice lock mounted on a piece of wood, and to practice your manipulation skills, as well as dialing diagnostics, and common change index/opening index customer errors for which there is a very good document available for free from the S&G website.

Happy safe work!
Squelchtone

[machinist]

link isnt working at the moment, are you talking about one of those 5.5mm camera with LCD combos? Yeah I know 7mm is a bit large but I paid 50$ for it and it works with my netbook. so I've got a nice 10" screen and I could even record and take snapshots. I'm scowering for a good 4mm rigid but right now I'm trying to keep the budget under 150$ for everything.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2u596l2&s=5
Mosler? with a S&G dial I was playing with.


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lj3trr&s=5
with a hole this big I dont need no stinking scope Seriously not me that drilled that,the 5/16 in the lock case was me. someone knocked what appears to be 3/4 and filled it with some crappy and smelly for some reason epoxy. smelled like cat turd.

[Farmerfreak]

Cheap tools only make the jobs harder.

The drill doesn't need to be a hammer drill. I've never used the hammer drill function when drilling a safe. But what you will need is a high-speed drill (3000 RPM) and a drill rig. http://www.strongarmdrills.com/rigs.html#R1 I have the mini rig and I like it. I have tried and failed to drill through hard plate without a rig before. If you are a big guy and the hard plate isn't very hard, you can probably do it. But even with "soft" hard plate, it isn't going to be fun without a rig.

I also have the EZ scope from lockmasters. http://www.lockmasters.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=167&IID=2483 And that scope is the cheap one, I hope to get the better one with the articulating tip one day..

[machinist]

My drill is rated at 3000RPM I just purchased a 4mm 30 degree rigid scope I snagged on ebay for 100$ with shipping. If anyone has some templates or safe books they want to sell or would loan or rent or want to have digitized converted to PDF for free PLEASE PM me. I want to mention I am CA licensed locksmith of course.

[Altashot]

Having experience in safe penetration, I can tell you that you will need a hammer drill, a 1/2" good quality hammer drill and a lot of drill bits. "Soft" hard plate can be penetrated with standard HSS bits but they need to be very sharp and with a shallow attack...You'll need to know how to sharpen them to achieve a hole. Safe bits are expensive and no better than re-shaped masonry drill bits. Again you need to know how to grind a proper rake angle and you need a special expensive stone to work tungsten carbide. A drill rig is almost necessary to drill "real" hard plate or chromium but a tie-down strap with a ratchet, wrapped around the safe and the drill will do...So will a chain and a 2x4... Drill speed AND torque are important here. I burned out many drills, even good ones will get uncomfortably hot in your hands...
Don't forget, you'll need a lot of drill bits...The average safe I work on uses 3-6 bits...On ONE hole...Some hard plate will need more...I have hit "ball bearing" packs that took more than 30 bits to get through...
You'll need a stool to sit on, magnifiying glass, various strong magnets, long punches, long wires, lubricants, protractor, graph paper,sometimes a calculator, pencil, ruler, large hammer, emergency dials, dial puller....A means to make "special" tools" ...

My bore scope needs a 17/32' hole for a strait entry, but I found that with the mirror or at an angle, weather it be to avoid hard plate or glass re-locker, a 3/8" hole allows enough room to wiggle and flex the camera wand into place...


Between the 4 of us at our shop, we have 140 years experience ...And records as far as the 1850...
...And still, we get some safes that none of has ever seen...Experience, common sense and intuition prevails...

That is not including the mal-functions...

M.

[machinist]

3-6 bits? yikes. Well I'm going to try an avoid that hardplate at all costs. I like the 2x4 idea I think I'm going to see if I can make my own drill rig out of a a metal pipe and some light duty chain. I'm very curious you say masonry bits are the equivalent of re-sharpened drill bits? I have a set of Bosch brand carbide mason bits I use when my regular auto/residential drilling gets ugly like hardplates on car igntions. Do you try to manipulate before you drill?

[Altashot]

My preferred method is manipulation of course, but it doesn't always work. Then I drill. Most of my drilling however is when a safe has malfunctionned, where the comb is known, but it wont open. If I were you, I'd get heavy duty chain, I wouldn't want to break the chain only to realize I should have gotten a heavier one. When you push on a 2x4 using the drill as a fulcrum, there is a lot of pressure on the chain. Pushing too hard will either break the chain or the 2x4. I have experienced both. Making a rig out of steel pipes is quite feasible, in fact, there are some ready made rigs that use just that. Most masonry bits are not really sharp as they don't need to be. The cutting action really is more of a breaking action from the hammer drill than true cutting.
The carbide tip is there for wear resistance as concrete is very abrasive. To sharpen carbide you will need a special grinding wheel, a regular wheel will nor sharpen carbide, but the carbide will cut the wheel. I sharpen them to create an actual cutting edge mimicking a safe bit. Masonry bits are far cheaper and work just as good when properly re-sharpened. Hard plate cannot always be avoided and knowing what kind it is will also determine whether it need to be punched, or what speed and pressure will be most effective. I suggest you get acquainted with a lot of "serious" safes before you attempt to drill one...If you spend 4 hours on a hole that you drilled at the wrong place or If you break the glass or somehow trigger a re-locker on, let's say, a Gary or a Chubb or a Drummond...You are going to find yourself in deep, deep shyte...Early on in my career, I attempted to drill a night depository that was way beyond my abilities...I triggered the re-lockers on my first hole and had to drill 16 more holes and worked on it for a week before I got it opened...Then I had to repair it...Classic case of not knowing what I was doing...
A thing to remember: "When in doubt...Don't"

M.