FAQ  •  Register  •  Login
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

<<

pickmonger2

Active Member

Posts: 418

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:33 pm

Location: Ontario

Post Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:50 am

Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

We all know that many locks on the market are crap and there are a lot of Youtube videos demonstrating how little protection they provide.

Is it ethical to show potential clients some of these videos or even demonstrate bump keys and show them how easy it is to make or buy them?
<<

mastersmith

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 675

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:16 pm

Location: Miami Township, Ohio

Post Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:37 am

Re: Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

This could be seen as "teaching" lock defeats. I usually suggest they do a little research on their own. It is very easy to find and anyone can do it. that gets me to round two of the questions, in most cases. If they talk with other potential customers they talk about what "they" found on-line.
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
<<

Jaakko Fagerlund

Active Member

Posts: 383

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:55 am

Location: Finland

Post Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:54 am

Re: Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

Unfortunately just showing videos from Youtube is a hit & miss. Some people understand and figure it out, while most are skeptical "becuse it is the internet". I have met even master locksmiths that have said that most of the picking/bumping/decoding videos are utter bullshit and that certain locks that are pickable are unpickable.

You don't have to teach them, but can show that because this lock has XYZ, it isn't bumpable or adds so and so much to picking it, unlike others.
<<

MartinHewitt

User avatar

Prolific Poster

Posts: 1823

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

I do not trust locksmiths to provide me helpful information on product security. This is because of misleading, perhaps wrong information and lack of information. The information provided about IT security and IT insecurity is much better, but also manufacturers are not really honest.

Regarding your question. For me such information would help build up trust, but other people might misunderstand this information. So in my opinion it is not unethical, but one has to be careful.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
<<

mdc5150

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 1113

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:35 pm

Post Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:32 pm

Re: Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

I usually ask customers to do their own research on the locks they own .vs the locks we sell (Mul-T-Lock). I tell them to think about how much money they have invested in their home and possessions, then to think about protecting all that with cheap locks.

My boss usually asks people how much their shoes are and how long they last them. Usually it's $200+ and then he points out that the shoes don't usually last for over 25 years. But then why are they so reluctant to spend on some decent protection?

I wouldn't show them Youtube videos or show them bumping, I think you actually lose credibility with them when you do that.
<<

chieflittlehorse

Active Member

Posts: 346

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:58 pm

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

I don't speak specifically about how easy a lock is to pick/bump/bypass and such unless they ask me.

Locksmithing is a business and I have to treat it that way.

The guy who wrote the LSS book who talks against security using obscurity is in business of having lawsuits against lock manufacturers whose locks are easily bypassed/broken/picked, etc. We all have an agenda I suppose. That's why I don't trust his actions of filing lawsuits as I think he's doing it to benefit himself and not the consumer (even if it does in the end).

Kwikset makes affordable locksets because that's what's in demand.

Now if a customer want's to really beef up their security I would make suggestions but most will not spend the money.

As my coworker once said is that if locks were to be up to that author's standards then that lock would be not be affordable.

I am an honest person as people have told me thru my actions and words.

That's my opinion anyway but everyone has one.

CLH!
You leave my GRAPHITE alone!!!
<<

ChancoNOLLAVES

Newbie

Posts: 9

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:26 pm

Location: New Mexico

Post Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:58 pm

Re: Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

To me it seems that security and "better locks" starts from the ground up, what good is putting a Mul T Lock MT5+ on a door that still has wooden frames (residential)? that door will kick open just the same with a kwikset installed as with the Mul T lock. Point being if you REALLY wanted to upgrade your security the locks seem like only a small part of the equation. so what good is selling a 100$ lock when it is installed on a crap door/frame ? only to sell the lock I suppose.it has to be a balance of profit motive/ actual security IMHO.
It opened, but not the way I want, the way I NEED it to open.
<<

Soulfreeze78

Newbie

Posts: 5

Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:17 pm

Post Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:36 pm

Re: Ethics in sales tactics to sell better locks?

Upselling expensive locks is a lost cause.

Been rekeying 50+ houses a week for the last 3+ years

I HATE DEFIANTS.

I sell kwikset if they need a kw1 lock.
Have customers say kwiset is too much and ask if i have the $15 locks they saw at walmart aka defiants.
I get home owners in 2 million dollar houses requesting defiant's.
Rekeyed a 26 lock house....all defiant.
Another house had Baldwin 5255 wave levers, $150 or so for a new 1. Handle had broken parts, he bought a $40 schlage to replace it. "Cause baldwins are too expensive" Said the customer in the 8 bedroom/6 car garage house on a private access restricted golf course.......

Have you seen the GARBAGE Amazon locks??? Head of the key is shaped like a Sc1,the blade is a Kw1 and they use 7 cuts. Like 73432 and the pinning ends up being something like 53230

Ultralock...Garbage-- $180 lock--- Head of the key is shaped like a Sc1,the blade is a Kw1. The top of cylinder is machined at an angle, so pinning doesnt match key cut.
https://www.amazon.com/ULTRALOQ-Bluetoo ... 7966373253

Constructor locks...Garbage Removing it from the package, strips the finish lol. There's a reason its only $50
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Constructor ... lsrc=aw.ds

Copper Creek...Garbage
Overseas locks with no name stamped on the latch or bolt plates...Garbage. Even defiant stamps the plates
Ace..Garbage
Masterlock brand door handles...eh

But these are what customers and new constructions are using.

Maybe its just me but if i had a million dollar house. It wouldnt have walmart locks lol

Easy of access smart locks are the only time they spend big money.

Return to Professional Locksmiths

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware