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Try to concentrate on non destructive entry.....

Hi.

I only joined this site recently and am just browsing some of the older posts so I don't know if you are still interested.

I have one of these locks with the combination.

The combo is actually 3 numbers then you dial back to 0, The lever fence does not touch the wheel pack till you pull on the shackle. You cannot feel the gates while dialling the combination. You can feel the flys touching the driver pins on the wheels but that tells you nothing.

The fence does not drop into the gates till you pull up on the shackle and you must return the dial to 0 after dialling the combo to do this. Pulling on the shackle while dialling the combo tells you nothing as, like I said, nothing is touching the wheel pack and you can only move the lever fence if the dial is set to 0. Wrong combo -NO OPEN!!

It's a bit complicated to explain in words (for me anyway).

I suggest you look up and download the patents (pdf files) that are stamped on the back.

From studying the mechanism I can's see anyway to manipulate this lock but I'm not an expert - still it is brilliantly designed.

These locks were used to lock Top Secret Government and military documents.

When I got mine and looked at the patent, I asked all the LP sites I could find, did MANY searches etc. to see if anyone has ever claimed to have manupulated one - could not find any reference to one ever being manipulated open.

Because of the way they are designed, tolerance errors will not help nor will a stethoscope.

I think they are truly awesome pieces of engineering.

The only way to truly appreciate this is to study the patent diagrams.

For anyone who doesn’t have one the patent numbers are 2,673,457 and 2,652,032. Well worth a look!!

One hint that I can give you if you want to work your way through the combinations -- most combo numbers end in 0 or 5 ie. 10,20,30 ....... 15, 25, 35 etc. not much help, I'm afraid.

Oh, one other thing, they can be spun either clockwise or anticlockwise to start dialing in the combo.

Neilau.

PS. I would really like to hear from anyone on this site if they have ever heard of one being manupulated and having that claim confirmed.

I have never know anyone to get one open without carefully drilling out the 4 pins and replace them.
Use a 5/64 drill bit and a press with a X-Y Cross vise if you want it to look good when done.
There is the 2 on the top one on each side.

Look at the nice pictures on this site.

http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/S%26G_8088

Richard

I see on that link that they say that the earlier ones used 10-20-30-0 for the factory preset and the later ones were 25-25-25-0. You might try the earlier factory combo just for the shits and giggles.

The 8077 is 25-0, you do not need to dial 25 three times.

Your right Riyame, I should have known this, I have a brand new 8077 still set to the factory 25-0. However the link was for a 8088 and it stated 25-25-25-0. But I see that other posts on these say skip the 25-25-25-0 and go 25-0. My question still is , what's the main difference between the 8077 & 8088 ?

8088 on the left (OK, technically that is an EVVA DPS on the left, but let's not be persnickety), the newer 8077 on the right. Yes, the newer lock has the lower number. The chrome cover is intended (as I understand it) to prevent decoding by x-rays. The dial is also better covered to reduce people looking over your shoulder to see the combination. It also shows attempts at taking it apart more. You also need to remove the back panel in order to access the combination change key hole. Between the two padlocks you can see the change key.



Gordon

Also the 8077 has the serial numbers on 3 major part to show if it has been defeated by damage and parts replaced to make you think it has not been tampered with. You can check the 3 parts to see the matching serial numbers at any time. Plus the design of the chrome case stopped easy drilling of the pins that hold the 8088 together. Lock is much heavier.

Richard

I haven't seen anyone recommend 25-50-25(-0).

25-50-25 is what the gov sets unused safes to, so that the next guy who gets it "knows" the combo without telling them your old combo or posting it/taping it to the safe.

Also: if you buy a surplus safe, try 25-50-25.

The KGB had a device about the size of a medium to large Maglite and it contained a radioactive isotope, so the story goes. They would place a piece of X-ray film behind the lock and shoot and see what they had going on and repeat as necessary. When people in D.o.D. or S & G found out about that or simply discovered the attack themselves through R & D or a rumor through the intelligence community, they made the shielded version. There are also versions of S & G locks like this that are like early "Hockey Puck" locks to secure GSA (Containers) File Cabinets, but they were not round like the American "Pucks," but they had the same basic concealed bolt concept.

That would be the S&G 8065. It is like the 8077 but has a hidden shackle like a puck lock.

Thank you! I posted that before leaving for work this morning and didn't have time to look it up and couldn't remember everything.

I have one of each of the S&Gs like Gordon posted a picture of up above. Great little locks. Destructive entry is a no-brainer and not hard at all, but then the cat is out of the bag, right?

Before I started working for an alarm company, I worked for a security company and had a Confidential and then later on, a Secret Clearance with them that I had to do all over again for the alarm company. When I was just a guard on a D.o.D. site, we had to check ALL of the dials every 30 minutes and record the number we found on the dial, spin it at least three times, record the number we spun it to, then initial the sheet. If it had a dial, this had to be done. And there were the #8065s you mentioned as well as GSA-Approved (Containers) File Cabinets with S&Gs built in. Of course, all SCIF doors had them, too. The knowledge of these procedures is pretty much S.O.P. for any D.o.D. Cleared Security Contractor and is not classified information, just so no one let's a chunk loose when reading this. But it goes to show how serious they are about taking care of information at times. If the guards are doing it right in a real security environment and it is not left to alarms, it is virtually impossible to surreptitiously enter an area like that and then get the information you need. THAT is the cool history of these great little locks!

here is a pic of a 8065 for those that have never seen one:

Thank you for showing that 8065, Mac. Does that button retract the shackle?

Gordon

you press the button, then turn the dial and the shackle retracts