I picked another Medeco! Looking to give and recieve info.

[jruther2]

Forgive me if this is obvious stuff to most of you. I have learned a lot about Medecos in the past few weeks and I am very excited and wanted to share as much as possible. This is the synopsis thus far of my journey to learn as much as possible about Medecos.

Background:
Over the last several weeks I have really gotten into Medecos. I now have six Medecos in my possession with two more on the way. I have read quite a bit of information on them but I have also tried to come to my own conclusions based on my own personal observations and compare them to what others are saying. I am a firm believer that having as much information as possible is very important but there is no substitute for hands on experience.

Working my way up:
I have been trying to pick all of these locks progressively. That is: Try to pick a lock with all pins and no sidebar to determine the binding order then take out some pins, put in the sidebar and work my way up to a fully populated lock.

Observations:
The first thing I noticed is that a Medeco is very easy to pick without the sidebar! Maybe not a big surprise to some but I keep hearing about Medecos tight tolerances so I assumed that a six pin lock with three mushroom pins and tight tolerances would be hard to pick even without the sidebar, but it is not. I'm not trying to be arrogant, just honest. I believe that anyone who spends any time at all picking a Medeco without the sidebar would agree with me.

The next thing I noticed is that setting a pin feels significantly different when the sidebar is in the lock. When the sidebar is installed, a pin has two different feels to it when it sets. Sometimes there is the standard click that we are all used to and sometimes it is more of a muffled click that sounds more like a 'cluck'. Its kinda hard to describe but if you are picking one you'll know what I'm talking about when you experience it. The 'normal' click is what I get when a pin sets to the shear line and is already rotated properly. The 'cluck' is a pin setting but not rotated properly (deal with it later).
The biggest difference I have noticed with having the sidebar in place is the false set. With no sidebar, the false set is quite pronounced with significant counter-rotation on your tension when setting the following pins. The sidebar does not allow such a huge false set so I was constantly oversetting pins because I was looking for the huge false set that I was getting when the sidebar was out. This actually makes the rest of the pins even easier to set once you know what you are looking for.

I recommend top keyway tension. I still suck at it but the extra room it gives for maneuvering a hook to rotate the pins is all the reason in the world for me to use it. I know plenty of people have picked Medecos using bottom keyway tension but for me I like the extra room.

After the pins are set to the shear line all that is left is aligning with the sidebar. I improvised a pin rotating tool (a very rough Medecoder) that catches the grooves in the keypins to rotate them but I have had more success just using my pick to rotate the pins with a combination of intentional force applied to individual pins and the occasional aggressive raking.

I'm sure I've forgotten to include a lot of things but these are the thoughts I have right now. I hope this helps someone. I also hope that if I have misunderstood something or have misspoken that someone will correct me. I'm an amateur hobbyist. I know that I have a lot to learn and that there will be plenty of incorrect assumptions made along the way but I don't want to keep all of my thoughts to myself so maybe someone out there will help steer me in the right direction and maybe I can help someone along the way too.

[awol70]

AWESOME! i simply cannot wait until my medeco mortice cylinder arrives,knowing that we have a guy on the crew that is focusing on medeco as you are, and willing to share the knowledge...
please keep it up...=)
i will keep you posted on my progress,and you can expect more than a few questions along the way..(perhaps an answer or two,as well.)

Fantastic post and equally as fantastic news.

I for one am extremely looking forward to seeing how many more you can pop open. Keep us posted.

Lew

[jruther2]

Thanks guys. I'm learning. Awol, I will help you, and anyone else who is interested, in any way that I can. I have watched dozens of your videos and learned so much from them. Thank you for them. I'm trying to make a video with this six pinner. I've only picked it once and am taking it apart on vid to show everything is in there. Unfortunately, I didn't get the picking on video. Hopefully I can get it all on video to show everyone. I probably won't post this video of me just taking it apart unless someone just really wants to see it because it doesn't prove I picked it just that I can take one apart. Its basically for me just because I know I did it.

[kizza8484]

Nice!! Thats an awesome obesrvation where you can tell if a pin is correctly aligned with the sidebar by the sound it makes when it sets. Utilising all forms of feedback, I like it!

Looking forward to some more of your vids.

[johnopsec]

Good information. I have never picked my 51S without the sidebar but, I have definately noticed the different set sounds before. I never put 2+2 together with the relationship to a full set or just a pin set. The first set I get with my 51S is the 5th pin. It is a VERY muted set and almost certainly not setting the sidebar. I have to go back and pick it as next to last again to get the sidebar set.

Thanks for the good info on these. Now, I've got another thing to feel/listen for when picking these.

[rxfiller]

I've never picked a Medeco, but one thing I have always wondered about. How do you tell the difference between setting the rotation on a false groove vs. the true groove?

Regards,
Bob.

[jruther2]

How do you tell the difference between setting the rotation on a false groove vs. the true groove?

I hate to sound like a broken record but its got to do with the sound and the feel of the way the pin sets. On the Medecos that I have, the false groove is not as deep as the true groove so it actually has a different feel to it. When you are setting a pin that is in the false groove and you know you are working on the correct pin, as it relates to the binding order, it will have a tight kind of friction to it like you are putting too much tension on your wrench but the pin will still move on up to the shear line with a muted type of click as John described it. Its quite difficult to describe if you have never tried to pick a Medeco, and this may not be the case for all false grooves. I imagine it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference if the false groove is as deep as the true one.

Thoughts or comments anyone?

[kizza8484]

I've never picked a Medeco, but one thing I have always wondered about. How do you tell the difference between setting the rotation on a false groove vs. the true groove?

Regards,
Bob.

Another method is if you tap each pin with a hook when they've been picked to the sheer line, as the falsely set pins will be held fast by the side bar, they have a different feel. You can tell the different feel between when the pins rattles around and when its stuck in place. Then when you rotate the pin using a tool such as a medecoder, you have to release he tension a little to get the sidebar tooth out of the false grove, and when this happens the pins will rotate under the pressure your privding until the tooth snags another groove. If its the correct grove, you'll feel the plug rotate a little more through the tension wrench as the side bar retracts even the tiniest amount. An almost indecernable rotation in the plug is exaggerated down the length of your tenstion wrench and you'll certainly feel it. It sounds hard but when you get to rotating the pins and you move one to the correct grove, you'll say to yourself 'that's definately it!!'.

[jruther2]

the pins will rotate under the pressure your privding until the tooth snags another groove. If its the correct grove, you'll feel the plug rotate a little more through the tension wrench as the side bar retracts even the tiniest amount. An almost indecernable rotation in the plug is exaggerated down the length of your tenstion wrench and you'll certainly feel it. It sounds hard but when you get to rotating the pins and you move one to the correct grove, you'll say to yourself 'that's definately it!!'.

Yes, exactly! Great description! I got excited when I read that just like I do when I feel that in a lock. I wish I could have articulated that in my comments but it doesn't matter now because you hit the nail on the head. Thanks!

[kizza8484]

the pins will rotate under the pressure your privding until the tooth snags another groove. If its the correct grove, you'll feel the plug rotate a little more through the tension wrench as the side bar retracts even the tiniest amount. An almost indecernable rotation in the plug is exaggerated down the length of your tenstion wrench and you'll certainly feel it. It sounds hard but when you get to rotating the pins and you move one to the correct grove, you'll say to yourself 'that's definately it!!'.

Yes, exactly! Great description! I got excited when I read that just like I do when I feel that in a lock. I wish I could have articulated that in my comments but it doesn't matter now because you hit the nail on the head. Thanks!

Haha cheers! Yeah its definately something you know about if you've picked one of these.

[johnopsec]

I imagine it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference if the false groove is as deep as the true one.

Thoughts or comments anyone?

By definition of the way the sidebar works, the false-groove can not be as deep as the true one. Otherwise, they would BOTH allow the sidebar to set. It would be an interesting way to do mastering on a biaxial though. Same depth - different rotation. Hrmmmm... I should have patented that before posting it, huh?

[jruther2]

the false-groove can not be as deep as the true one. Otherwise, they would BOTH allow the sidebar to set.

Ugh.... so simple, so obvious, and yet that fact somehow escaped me. However, you have started the development of an idea in my head for a key pin with a different type of false groove and a slight modification to the sidebar that could make picking more difficult. I'm not sure that it could work but you definitely got me thinking. Nice observation. Thanks for the input!

[uklockpicker]

I found this ....thought it may help this topic


It has come to my attention that you lockpickers out there don't know how to pick those high-security locks by Medeco. Those locks are patented until the year 1995 I believe and can cost up to $75 to replace because of this. Anyway, I have known a way to pick these locks for awhile now and I thought I would share it with you.

First of all you all must share some sort of idea on how locks work. With this information you will understand how the Medeco lock works. If you do not have this understanding I would prefer you read other articles on lockpicking before you read this because it will be somewhat difficult to understand. I will try to make this as simple and plain as I can because I know how dfficult it is to pick locks. BTW, read my previous file called "Locksmithing" to learn about locks. Now for the good stuff...

These types of locks are found on most condominiums, office buildings, etc that require a great deal of security. The lock is sometimes referred to as an angular pin tumbler lock simply because of how the lock works. It is a pin tumbler lock with 6 or 7 pins. Instead of the cuts in the key being on a horizontal plane, they are cut at an angle. Medeco did this to prevent any type of foreign object such as picks from entering the keyhole since it is very tight and resticted.

In order to pick this lock, you must know how to use the "racking" technique. practice on regular pin tumblers to get an idea and the feel for this. Anyway, the pick used for this type of lock is the standard diamond pick. However, one modificaton is necessary to make this pick effective. The tip of the pick must be slightly twisted to a 15 degee angle in order to pick any type of Medeco (or deco looking) locks. To twist the diamond pick's tip, use a propane torch to heat the tip for about 20-30 seconds. Wait until it turns blue. With a pair of pliers, gently twist the tip 15 degrees. It may lose some of its temper when you pick and too much stress may break the tip of completely. Afer it has cooled, carefully file it to a wedge-like shape, keeping the angle even. If it still can't fit into the lock, try grinding off the bottom of the pick's shaft along its whole length until it slides in with little effort.

If you do not have a pick to use, you can make them from a steak knife (draw the design on it, use a jigsaw to cut it out, and file it down). The material of the diamond picks that I have is called blue steel. I can't find any of those in my area in hobby shops. I had to order them thruogh a catalog such as "Delta Press" or "Soldier of Fortune."

Okay, now that you have made the pick, you must make a tension wrench especially made for this type of lockpicking. When picking Medeco locks, play with the tension is very important. This is why a new tension wrech is necessary. Sure, you could use a stanard tension wrench but the feel and the torque would not be accurate and consistent so you would have a very difficult time picking this lock.

To make this tension wrench, which is sometimes called a feathertouch or spring tension wrench, you must first get a spring. You know the big ones that are found in the otto of the drapes in a hotel, motel, lobby, etc. They are about 5 or so inches long and the hood down the cords that open and close the curtains of a large window. You need to get one of those or something very similiar to it. You then have to do someting to make it very small and thin. One of the spring's ends is pulled out with a pair of pliers. It is then bent back in and shaped like half of a horsetrack. Ths is where it is put into the keyhole. You would also need to shape it and file it down so that it will fit into the lock. You would use this like any other tension wrench but the feel will be much more sensitive. Practice on other locks to get the feel for it before attempting to pick the Medeco. Have fun...

hope this help.......

[jkthecjer]

I found this ....thought it may help this topic


It has come to my attention that you lockpickers out there don't know how to pick those high-security locks by Medeco. Those locks are patented until the year 1995 I believe and can cost up to $75 to replace because of this. Anyway, I have known a way to pick these locks for awhile now and I thought I would share it with you.........

Thanks for contributing, but imho that article is a load of crap. I think that the whole bent-half-diamond thing was just a figment of Steve Hampton/Paladin Press' imagination. Also, just a thought: does anyone actually use feathertouch wrenches?