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Posted: **Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:46 pm**

hivtop wrote:hello everyone.. this is my first post so please be nice..lol don't know if this is where this post goes but.......

I found an older sentry fire safe that I put into storage ages ago and have forgotten the combination too. it's the big one (16W x 17Deep x 18high, think it's a SF205CV. 2 cubic ft., there is NO serial or model numbers on the outside (so no help from sentry). it ONLY has a 100 number dial combination, NO key-way or electronics anywhere.

been working on Manipulation for a month or more (my first try at this).. Read tons of posts, the Manipulation books that everyone suggests but like the jitterbug, finding the true gates totally eludes me..

from sentry the pattern for this safe is R (clockwise) - L (cc) - R (c).. the standard Master Lock pattern with 2 wheels and the drive cam as the last third wheel and a "Direct Entry Fence" lock.

I have been using the "apply pressure to the wheel pack until it locks up and measure the gap size" method..

when I do an All Wheels Right (AWR) and All Wheels Left (AWL) I get 85 (83 to 87) all other gaps are 3 numbers wide. the posts I've read on sentry fire safes say that "if it's the same number for AWR and AWL it is the drivecam" therefor the last number, but the Guide to Manipulation states; "that wheel number 2 will usially indecate first on sentry fire safes" More confusion... Lol

I tried using a lazer pointer and graphing (20 graphs later), I've tried the "Nudge" method for second and first wheels, I've tried dieling the combination using 85 as last number in 2.5 increments all with no luck... Guess I was never ment to be a safe cracker... LOL... so i've given up...

Will someone Please post a picture of the inside of the door for this model or message me one cuz I do have a drill and welder... that way I can open it, get the combination, then weld the hole closed and still use it.. remember it's not a security safe just a fire safe... Lol

Can you please post a picture of the safe?

Gordon

Posted: **Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:36 pm**

Yes, the widest gap will be the drive wheel (last wheel in this Sentry combo). Your safe has 2 wheels and a driver. On most direct entry Sentry's, use 5 increments, much quicker.

Posted: **Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:33 pm**

here is a pix of the safe sitting on my bench.. and yes bitbuster I tried 2.5 and 5 without any luck... haha

Posted: **Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:35 pm**

All that was needed was to use the 'search' in upper right hand corner of page. This is an 'older' Sentry, probably from the '70-'80s. Your 'old' Sentry is from the 2000s. Your Sentry wheels are probably plastic and driver may have several false gates. Wheels may also be slightly bigger. The principle is still the same.
https://imgur.com/a/v7Rkm

Posted: **Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:24 pm**

bitbuster.. I have searched, read and reread and dialed endless combinations with no luck... I can pick most locks in less than 30 seconds, combination paddle locks in 15 min, dial lock in 5 min.... but I guess safes just are not my cup of tea... LOL so still looking for a pix of the workings for the 2000's model...

Posted: **Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:42 pm**

Sorry, I have no internal wheel photos of a safe similar to yours.

Posted: **Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:31 am**

bitbuster wrote:This is an 'older' Sentry, probably from the '70-'80s. Your 'old' Sentry is from the 2000s.

Never seen the magnet in the sock trick - For some sentry safes its on you tube worth a look :razz:

Posted: **Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:06 am**

Last week I went to a local locksmith shop where I buy locks from time to time. I chatted a little with them and told them I pick locks. They told me there's a very secure lock that can't be picked, the Cisa TSP. Well, they were kind enough to let me borrow one for a week / ten days (without the keys obviously). I tried to pick it for four or five evenings, without good results. I got a deep false set but could never identify the missing pin to open it. Well, I was not picking the side pins because I thought they were passive. After realizing it, and after a long picking session on my couch while watching a movie, I finally got it open. You can imagine my excitement! I probably got it almost open the night before, without even realizing it. I was just missing the active side pins.

I have to admit that this lock is one of the most difficult I've picked so far. The extremely paracentric keyway makes very difficult to insert a pick. I had to make a special half diamond with tapered sides and a super thin shaft just for this lock. And then I used an old and thick curve to pick the side pins.

This morning I went back to the shop and all the five people working there went to see the lock open, and were very curios about the tools I used to open it. They congratulated me for opening it. I thanked them for the challenge. They made me more happy than may have realized. I got a big sense of accomplishment, like when I first opened a lock.

Cheers

Posted: **Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:24 am**

Very nicely done, Femurat!

It also proves that a picker can not take what they ‘know’ for granted. Been there with impressioning. Was trying to impression a Master Padlock that uses a Yale keyway.

Went through a number of Y1 blanks (five pin) without success, then decided to pick the lock first and read the pins in the picked state, trying to work out where I was going wrong. As usual, I used the back of my half diamond pick to make sure I could hear all the pins click. That is when I realized my problem. It was not a five pin lock. It was a six pin lock. :oops:

So I grabbed a Y2 blank (six pin) to try impressioning again. Put in the blank, applied light turning force to bind the pins, but the pins didn’t bind. The plug turned. The lock was zero bitted. :oops:

So all you newer pickers out there - don’t assume!

Gordon

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:11 pm**

femurat wrote:I went to a local locksmith shop where I buy locks from time to time

Great picking on the order list for next year- it is confusing looking at the stats on this lock what is passive for sure 13 pins !

as for the blockshaft did 5mins research its a Italian vehicle lock - for steering the hole is for tip of key - oblong correct

Would like to read your findings - on the lock with pics on KP in new year :cool:

Posted: **Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:43 pm**

GWiens2001 wrote:Put in the blank, applied light turning force to bind the pins, but the pins didn’t bind. The plug turned. The lock was zero bitted.

Never come across a zero bitted lock - very close but never a lock without bitting or cuts found on key .

moving on the national locksmith vamp - or re register that happened this year - FAILED OLDER FORUM - sent them reasons WHY ... Need to listen - learn & do your research on what is happening in the LOCK SPORT COMMUNITY. social media :razz:

current events and individuals committed to there sport - trade

Progress KP one of a few good online open source forums where- learning - sharing - banter - fun - places to come as lasted the test of time - big thanks to admin for there work this year (Mod Power)

Also big thanks to the best damn lock pickers

on the planet that posted wish I could buy you all a pint - great picking and work ! :boxing:

HAPPY XMAS

Ringo

Posted: **Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:54 am**

Ringo, thank you for the compliments! I haven't disassembled the cisa but I think the passive pins are only 3 or 4 on one side, then there are 6 active on the bottom and 3 or 4 active on the other side.

You are correct about the other lock, the key tip moves the cam.

Merry Christmas to you and to everybody else here on the forum!

Cheers

Posted: **Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:46 pm**

SFIC "WC" picked to control

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:07 pm**

Finally... first disk detainer lock I've ever picked.
This is a cutout (from SSDeV) of some Chinese lock. The gates aren't visible in the cutout, though seeing the edges of the disks does help in positioning the pick.

picked.jpg

Now to something more difficult, I suppose. I do have the Jaakko ABUS tool, though I'm failing miserably at using it. I suspect all my ABUSes are the newer version which isn't front-tensioned

.
Also I've found that having to constantly rotate the pick to move between the disks really disturbs my "process".

Posted: **Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:04 am**

Nice work Patrick! I'm not sure if it's more or less difficult than the Chinese DD locks but if you can find a W-Lok in your area it may be a good candidate for picking.

.:: Keypicking :: Anything And Everything For Locksmiths, Hobbyist Lock Pickers, Locksport, Lock Picking, lockpicks, cutaways and Security. Simply The Best Lockpicking Forum Around!

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