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ABUS 88/50

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einherjer

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Post Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm

ABUS 88/50

Hi
Can anyone tell me what I`m doing wrong?
Been struggeling with a Abus 88/50. I know I`m in all the true gates (at least pretty sure) but it still wont open.
I even tok it apart and then used my dd-pick, just to confirm.
This lock has 9 discs: 9 is zero and 1 is butterfly, the 7 in between is standard
I just dont get it!
I use a zero disc to tension when I turn the butterfly even have 3 different dd-picks
Very sure there`s a trick to it, if someone knows what it is
I really appreciate if you could help me
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jharveee

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Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:53 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

HI, Can we get some photos of the lock and picks that you are using?
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einherjer

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Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:33 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

will you tell me how I upload photos to the site?
Anyway Im gonna "grind" down the tension tip on my Monterey pick a bit more, and see
Thanks for answering
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MartinHewitt

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Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

When you use the "Post Reply" button you have down there below the "Submit" button an "Upload attachment" tab.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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einherjer

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Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:13 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

Thanks for tips on the photo upload
20190109_182227.jpg
20190109_182609.jpg
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jharveee

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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:18 am

Re: ABUS 88/50

https://youtu.be/RKhWKmOc4wA
Maybe there is something in this video that will help.?
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einherjer

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Post Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:41 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

Thanks for the tip!
I am starting to think that I`m not in all the true gates.
But not givin up!! (just tired of not being able to open it)
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MartinHewitt

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Post Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:16 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

I have very little experience with disk detainer locks and only with the cheap Chinese ones. One of these I could not open for a long time. The reason was that I thought one of the disks was at the maximum rotated position, but it wasn't and the gate was behind this position. I just had to turn the tensioner quite a bit back to be able to rotate this disk further and then it was open.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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einherjer

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Post Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:18 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

A couple of mine "cheap" chinese DD locks, are so "sloppy-weird" that you could argue, that they are difficult locks to pick.
Because their so badly made.
Anyway with the Abus, Im gonna take it apart again. And begin again
(And a big thanks for inputs! It has given me a positive recharge)
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einherjer

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Post Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

Got it on my first try!!! Belive it or not.. Finally.
There`s no special trick to it, as I thought . I just had to adjust my DD-pick when turning the butterfly disc
(my dd-pick was ca 1mm to deep in the tension cut, som it moved the first disc also)
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:06 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

This is a problem which can occur in many types of locks and which can be unnoticed for quite some time. Excellent you spotted this.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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huxleypig

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Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:34 am

Re: ABUS 88/50

So now Abus have changed the lock again to have butterflies at the rear AND the front! So what then? There is a 0 driver disc in there somewhere, it is randomly placed between the butterflies. Sometimes this means it is in position 2 though, which means you can just use a front tension too and pick up on disc 2 instead of the front-most disc. The tensioner keeps the front butterfly in place as you tension disc 2. Likewise, sometimes it is the disc right in front of the rear butterfly so you can use a thicker tensioner and pick on both the rear 2 discs for tension.

If it is in any of the other 5 positions then you have a problem. A problem with many solutions though. The most common trick is to tension using a butterfly anyway and try to feel for the gates on the other discs. When you think everything is right you find the actual 0 with your picking tip and rotate the tensioner back round 1 position. I do not like this though because you are falling right into the trap Abus want you to and the feedback is crappy (by design). You can use no tensioner at all and use 2 picking tips - one tip tensions from a disc and the other picks the discs the other side of that disc. As the tension pick will be in the middle of the pack, the tips are swapped around when it is time to pick the discs the other side of the tension disc, so the original tension picking tip becomes the pick and vice versa. This method works well and I like it but it is very difficult to stop the tension tip from slipping off the disc, which gets very annoying. So a third solution that I invented was the 3-in-1. It has its tensioner in the middle and a pick either side. It is good for tensioning the front disc, the rear disc, or any disc in the middle and always having a pick on the correct side(s) of the tensioner. This works the best IMO. I will pick a disc at the front and tension...if I get no feedback from picking the other discs then I just go down the stack a disc with the tensioner until I start getting good feedback. Then you have found the driver disc and it should be plain sailing from there.

I have since developed a few other solutions that bypass the butterfly discs. I call them the "Butterflypass" (see what I did there?) and they allow you to tension from the rear or front butterfly without the butterfly going too far. It turns it back into a basic DD. I also have another couple of tricks that allow you to tension the lock in totally new ways, again, getting around the butterfly disc tensioning issue.

Abus actually included another anti-pick mechanism in the newer Abus Plus locks but it is totally ineffective. They have let all the washers wobble 20 degrees and the pack is under a little spring tension, meaning that when you move 1 disc all the others discs in the pack move a little too. The idea is that if a picker can't ever stop all the other discs moving when picking up on one of them then the lock will be impossible to pick. And in theory this is right, if you set a disc and then it moves when you go to another disc life would become infuriating. The problem is that they did not account for the downwards pressure from the sidebar when under tension. This pressure keeps a binding disc in place and also keeps a set disc in its gate despite the wobble of the rest of the (as yet unset) pack. So it is totally useless, but good try Abus!
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:55 am

Re: ABUS 88/50

Do they advertise this new anti-pick feature? If they do and sell more locks because of this, then it would be a rather effective anti-pick feature - saleswise.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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huxleypig

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Location: West Mids, UK

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:28 am

Re: ABUS 88/50

No Martin, I have never seen them advertise it. It is in their patent though, and in the lock. I have never seen Abus advertise any of their specific anti-picking/security measures and they have changed them a lot over the years.
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einherjer

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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:33 pm

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:22 pm

Re: ABUS 88/50

Huxleypig! You know these locks thats clear. And thanks for givin me an answer to why the "feedback" differs so much.
I have progressed to pick the lock with both front and back tension picks. (after I shortened the tension tip on my back tension tool)
My next is to try to pick it with my homebrew tools, I dont know if I can make it, it feels maybe to difficult to do.
Well se if I manage to do it, I will make a Y-T video of it (my first)

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