fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

[fgarci03]

Hey all!

I'm starting to go into impressioning. I have made a simple attempt in the past without any success. Left it aside for a while, and now I started again.

This post is for me to record every steps I'm now making so I can:
1) Keep track of my evolution
2) Get help from the pro's
3) Possibly help someone

I will post both my successes and failures, techniques and thoughts. I'll do many things that have probably been proved unsuccessfull but it's my way of doing things. I need to see first hand some stuff. Call it re-inventing the wheel, it's how I do

This is the kind of post that can be updated frequently or not, depending on my current projects. I hope you find this as interesting as me, and help with all your knowledge!

Thanks for watching

[fgarci03]

IMPRESSIONS 1 & 2

So,
My first impression was actually to make keys for my room lock and for my sister's.

Both rooms have this keyway:


So I got the blanks:


These blanks have to be filled just to fit the keyway, both in height and width, so that's what I did:


When I put it on my room's lock, it rotated. I had a working key :


But I noticed the key had some markings, as it didn't rotate smoothly. So I filled and kept "forcing the key" to get more marks:


The result of a smoothly working key for my room was this:


SUCCESS! FIRST IMPRESSION!
______________________
My sister's room:

I tried this key on her lock (some locks around the house work with the same key. It didn't rotate, so I filled a blank again, and started to work on it. Started to see some marks and filed them:


Untill I couldn't see any more marks. So I applied more force on the key. Untill it broke :


START AGAIN. This time, since I removed the lock from the door to retreive the broken piece, I cheated. I was looking at the levers and filled where I saw binding. Untill I got this:

But sometimes it operated the lock, sometimes not. Untill I found that it only operated the lock if the lock was upside down. I filled to much because the levers being upside down, gravity does the rest.

START AGAIN.
All the same procedure. With more caution, taking more time and having more patience.


Working bit by bit, untill...


WORKING KEY!
Yes it's ugly. But it works!
Both keys also work from both sides of the lock, as these are made to be in use, not just to practice impressioning. The last key was just a little bit filled to much on the part that operates the bolt, but works well enough. I'm going to make another one in a near future that works better and is prettier (this one looks like a piece of bent metal ), but for the time being, my sister has a key for her room and I got to practice impressioning.

Materials used:
Needle file. It doesn't even have a handle, so my hands are killing me. But if you do a job that you like it's like no job at all


LESSON 1:
- Don't cheat! I cheated and it came out wrong. If I'm cheating I'm not paying enought attention, as I believe it'll be easier. It came out wrong!

LESSON 2:
- Don't force the key like a jackass. You don't need this to impression a key:



The key that I made that didn't work because I cheated (the only one that actually looks with a key!), actually worked on one of my girlfriend's door (she actually needed a key for that door, as the original broke one bit and only worked from one side of the door. Talk about irony

I'll be back with more soon

[fgarci03]

If for some reason the photos don't load, reload the page. I have tested and all the photos are working, but dropbox may be updating or something, and sometimes they don't load properly!

[GWiens2001]

A common problem when starting out is breaking keys. I started impressioning with pin tumbler keys, and did break Quite a few of them. Breaking keys is pretty rare now, as I am better at reading the marks than I used to be. No real need to bend the key. Also, too much force can not only break the key, but it can damage the lock as well. One of my early impressioning attempts was with a cheap post office box lock. The key impressioned fine, but then once the plug turned, the key would not work at all. Disassembled the lock, and it had the softest metal pins I have ever seen up to this day. Both the key pin and the driver pin were bent! As it was just a junk lock to play and practice with, I just put it back together without that pin stack. A couple of months ago, took that lock apart to see why no other pins had bent when I have inpressioned locks. Tested a key pin by tapping it with a screwdriver handle on my vice, and the pin flattened out. Cheap POS!

Gordon

[fgarci03]

Hehe!
My problem is that I don't think I have good tools for the job.

No impressioning handle (I know I can use a pliers, but I need to find one that suits me), and still too newbie to properly read marks.
I'm going to play with a masterlock 140 on the next few days and see what I can do

Flattening a pin with a screwdriver handle is hardcore!

[darkhorse]

great post....Another tip when impressioning....We all break keys..its part of the learning process....When you do just transfer/file the shape so far onto the new blank and carry on again from there..reducing the risk of breaking key number 2

[fgarci03]

Thanks!

Yes that's so true. On this specific case it was because I forced the key like a jackass though
The next one worked well!

[rai]

You need to stuff a wine bottle cork on that file tang before you really hurt your hand.

[mastersmith]

I have a question, does the sister's key work in your door? I have a suspicion that it may. Many of the residential mortise locks are ordered master keyed originally. If you ever decide to get rid of those locks, send them my way. Those are some beautiful escutcheons and knobs!

[GWiens2001]

You need to stuff a wine bottle cork on that file tang before you really hurt your hand.

Then stuff the contents of the bottle in your stomach. It may not help you impression keys, but you won't care.

Gordon

[Oldfast]

This is the kind of post that can be updated frequently or not, depending on my current projects.
I hope you find this as interesting as me, and help with all your knowledge!

I'm VERY excited to watch this thread expand. I have zero experience with lever locks...
so it's nice to see you starting there. I'm sure I'll be learning something from you.

Thanks for watching

You can bet I will be

[fgarci03]

I have a question, does the sister's key work in your door? I have a suspicion that it may. Many of the residential mortise locks are ordered master keyed originally. If you ever decide to get rid of those locks, send them my way. Those are some beautiful escutcheons and knobs!

Yup, hers works on my lock, mine doesn't work on hers!

Yes, if I ever change the locks I'll remember you

Then stuff the contents of the bottle in your stomach. It may not help you impression keys, but you won't care.

Depends on the wine that is!

I have zero experience with lever locks...

Mike, I have zero experience with impressioning

Thanks. Today I mounted a safe lock so now I have two projects going on: impressioning and manipulation.
Some of you have seen some safes I posted on LP101. One of them will require both impressioning AND manipulation! Hehe gotta start practicing to pop it open

[fgarci03]

IMPRESSIONS 3 & 4

Ok, these aren't impressions per se, but for the sake of this thread, I'll count them as such.
My girlfriend uses the same locks as in my previous posts inside her house.

Due to copying already copied copies of copied keys (get it? ) and to loss of some keys, replaced by others that barely work in the lock, and then copying them (the locks have around 20+ years), many of those keys don't work smoothly, or are only able to operate one turn of the lock. She asked me if I could fix that.

Me? Of course!

Today I worked in two keys, because she had removed the lock from the door (going to paint the doors) and I started by those, in case I wasn't sure of anything, I could "cheat" and look at the levers. Didn't need to.

First key I worked, I forgot to take pictures prior to filing it
Anyway, here's the finished key, and I pointed out the place where I filed:

Just thined that a little bit and voilá, working key!

The next one involved a little more work.
Here's the key prior to impression:


First, I used a match to give the key a layer of soot, so I could see the impression marks a little better. Got this:


Notice that the center mark is a little off-centered? I believe it's because I'm inserting the key on one side of the lock. If I inserted on the other side, it would mark it symetrically. That's why these kind of keys are always symetrical.

So after a little filling I eventually got this:


At first, the key was working perfectly, but I didn't feel it as smooth as it should. That's when I cheated and looked at the levers while operating the key.
I had to file this part just a little bit more on the side (on both sides actually):


I had seen those marks on the key with the soot, but wasn't sure what they meant so I didn't file to "thin" the teeth of the key. Now I know!
I know this isn't a full impression, but produced a lot of help to "my quest"!


Questions:
1)

Notice that the center mark is a little off-centered? I believe it's because I'm inserting the key on one side of the lock. If I inserted on the other side, it would mark it symetrically. That's why these kind of keys are always symetrical.

Is this correct?

I'll work on the other keys and I'll post them here! One of them will actually have to be impressioned, as it's missing!

Thanks

[fgarci03]

IMPRESSION 5

Again, another key for a door. This one was made from scratch, not a "refurbished" one.
Usuall proceedure, got this:


Just one question:
1) On this one, I noticed a lot of drag marks, haven't seen them on other impressions. Any idea what they could be?

P.S. - The candle is the one I used to put soot on the key

[fgarci03]

IMPRESSION 6

My first pin tumbler impression! (Ok, not a real impression, but a key making )
A while ago, I got this Elzet 751 from ARF-GEF. It had no keys so I wanted to make a key for it. Here's the lock:


So, yesterday night, I disassembled it and looked for a key that fitted, with shallow cuts, so I could work from it:


They key fitted and all it's cuts made the pins stay above the sheerline. Perfect!


So I started filing down, and suddently on of the pins got REALLY under the sheerline. Couldn't understand why.
Then I figured it out... The already cutted key's bitting didn't had the same spacing as this lock. So when I started trimming the sharp edges out of the key, so it fits smoothly on the lock, I was actually filling down where the pins were. So, ditched the key, and today went and grabbed a few blanks.

Start again! Pin by pin this time:


Until I got this key, and this sheerline:


Everything assembled, the key didn't work... Crap, remove the plug again...
After all, all I needed was to file the key just a little bit more on some of the pins, and it now works smoothly! Here's the key:


And the proof of success:


Nothing too great, but good enough for me!

Today I don't have questions (wow!), but a few notes:
1) I need to start being more carefull with the C-Clip, as it bent a little and now drags when the plug rotates. After a million turns it got smoother and isn't a problem, but it's something I'll watch out next time;
2) I was very carefull on my tryings to test if they key COULD BE REMOVED from the lock, by appling hard pressure on the pins and removing the key from the plug, before inserting the plug on the cylinder. I think it's worth a note, as I'm often distracted with other stuff. Had I not tested and trimmed the edges, I would have ruined this lock.

That's all for now