Flywheel's Impressioning FAILURE!

[flywheel]

Padlock and blanks
5-pin Eagle padlock and 1014K Ilco blanks

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The keyway

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The tools
Don't forget the vise grips and table vise in the garage

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The tools most likely to be used come in a variety of shapes; round, square, triangular, flat, ...

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This should be good. Even I don't know what is going to happen. Stay tuned! Outcome and pictures to follow.

Thanks to Jeff Moss for the key blanks.

[GWiens2001]

Get some 400 grit or 600 grit sandpaper. Those files are very rough, and will leave a surface that may make it hard to see the impressioning marks. After filing, use sandpaper to smooth out the cuts. That is what I do at work when impressioning with my standard grade files similar to yours.

Good luck to you.

Also, just as a laminated Master lock is great to learn picking, it is also great to learn impressioning.

Gordon

[Oldfast]

Lookin' forward to following along flywheel!

Was thinking the same as Gordon. You might find those files leave too rough
a surface to accept marks very well. You may have trouble identifying them.
Give it a try and see how it goes though. If not, +1 on the sandpaper advice.

[jeffmoss26]

Looking forward to this - if you need more blanks, let me know.

[flywheel]

Maybe I should use the micro diamond files instead?

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Or maybe I shouldn't fret too much over the marks left behind?

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Either way, I'll know the answer in the next couple days.

[Papa Gleb]

Hey buddy, always a pleasure to see someone else jumping on this train. I can tell you now and everyone will agree that once that plug turns the addiction begins lol. Luckly we have Jeff Moss to provide practice locks

Those older locks can often be hard to impression plus the key way warding can add to that. I would suggest you pick it and decode the pins to give you an idea of how the bitting should look and also look at the pins, if they are flat as opposed to pointy then you may have a hard time with the marks and considering the files you are using, you may be leading yourself up for failure but of course I wish you success. Also my understanding is that diamond files are more rough and used to remove harder material so I would imagine they would leave a worse finish then the other files. Lastly, go slow, you may not even notice how you pass the shear line.

PS Where did you get the sandpaper?

[flywheel]

Getting started

tools.jpg

vise.jpg

Unaltered key blank

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A touch of 400 grit sandpaper

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Black marker applied

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First impressions. After this I didn't apply the maker any more.

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Four grooves

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The beginning of trouble

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A few minutes later

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The key didn't last much longer

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The plug was beat up too

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The first couple impressioning attempts I didn't see anything. I applied the marker and still no luck. I must have torqued or wiggled the key properly and was able to get started. I used the triangular file to get a groove before switching over to the round file. Immediately I noticed only four grooves being made on what should be a 5-pin lock but I kept telling myself to trust the marks. Impression, file, hope I am doing it right, repeat.
I thought I had a little turn on the plug but quickly saw the first appearance of a crack. It was miniscule so I continued with the hope that I could finish. The grooves were now deep enough that I was considering filing down the peaks. By this time the crack had enlarged and the key was slightly deformed. The key almost gave way completely on the next attempt.
I brought the key and 5-pin lock inside (or was it now a 4-pin lock?). I ran a half-diamond pick over the stacks and reaffirmed it was indeed a 5-pin lock. Next I used the pick to estimate the depth of pin 5. From my rough measurements it appeared that pin 5 would rest on the tip of the key and not the ledge. Using digital calipers I made the following measurements of the impressioned key blank. From shoulder to center of first groove (with crack included) is 0.180". Distance between grooves is 0.160". That means the first and fifth groove should be separated by 0.640".

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I believe these blanks are too short for this lock. What do you think?

[Altashot]

Your spacing looks good, so...
If it is a 5 pin lock then the blank is indeed too short. Get yourself another blank and
file the shoulder back by one whole space. I think there is enough milling to make yourself a 5 pin blank.
The 5th pin should land where the 4th is now and the 1st pin should land where it is cracked.

M.

[jharveee]

I'm liking Gordon's idea,
Start with a 4 pin master lock with known pin space/depth info.
Easy to get blanks.
Work your way up.

[jeffmoss26]

I have a similar Eagle lock that Texas Jim impressioned for me, I will see how many pins it has and let you know.

[flywheel]

I have a similar Eagle lock that Texas Jim impressioned for me, I will see how many pins it has and let you know.

Have a little faith in my counting abilities. I have five similar Eagle padlocks and they all have five pins.

[Papa Gleb]

Flywheel you have just experienced the first troubles of impressioning. I didnt want to add negativity but I had a feeling you would come back with a cracked blank. The vise grips you are using are toooo big and the leverage they offer will easily break blanks especially at the beginning were your hand is still learning. Remember wiggling harder is not a guarantee for better or more marks but is a guarantee to break the blank.

Im partly agree with Gordon and Harvey. Its obvious you are doing everything right but failed attempts especially at your first run can be very discouraging and can often lead to someone giving up on this skill. A Lock like a master are great to start with, you will reassure yourself that you are doing everything right and it will give you a good confidence boost. Plus those locks, if not too used will leave very nice deep marks.

[flywheel]

PS Where did you get the sandpaper?

Online years ago. Very handy for stone sculpture and a surprising amount of other things.

I'm liking Gordon's idea,
Start with a 4 pin master lock with known pin space/depth info.
Easy to get blanks.
Work your way up.

Undoubtedly good advice. After winning the Eagle padlocks on ebay the desire to impression one of them struck and here I am now.

...Get yourself another blank and
file the shoulder back by one whole space...

Good idea. Going to try again.

Flywheel you have just experienced the first troubles of impressioning. I didnt want to add negativity but I had a feeling you would come back with a cracked blank. The vise grips you are using are toooo big and the leverage they offer will easily break blanks especially at the beginning were your hand is still learning. Remember wiggling harder is not a guarantee for better or more marks but is a guarantee to break the blank.

...very discouraging and can often lead to someone giving up on this skill...

Not discouraged in the least. A broken key was expected. This didn't stop me from imagining the first key ending up working perfectly with laser cut peaks and valleys. It isn't stopping me from imagining the second key as ending up perfect either.

[flywheel]

Second attempt. Cut off the key shoulder with a dremel and cleaned up with a file. Took 400 grit sandpaper to the ledge to prep the surface.

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I mounted the padlock differently this time. I heard a rattle that may be the result of a missing or damaged spring and wanted to avoid any problems by keeping the padlock upright. The noise may have been there before but I didn't think about the implications previously.

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Began impressioning again while seeing good indications and no indications. After every attempt I eagerly looked for little "black" specks that told me where to file off a bit more. As I progressed it became increasingly difficult to find the needed marks. Towards the end I seemed to be "impressioning" 3 or 4 times for every time I used the file. About two-thirds of the way through I began to really question if the marks I thought I was seeing. The groove for the fifth pin was also approaching the warding making me to wonder if I had gone too deep already. I didn't have to worry about that too much because the key had had enough.

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Naturally, I bent the key extractor trying to remove the broken piece. The key lasted a lot longer this time around. I was holding the vise grips near the key and instead of a lot of back and forth like last time I turned it one way and wiggled it up and down to impression.

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I placed the broken blank on top of yesterday's attempt to compare spacing and depth.

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And so ends my two key blank impressioning attempts of this Eagle padlock. I would call this a failure but clearly the key blanks were defective.
Anyway, I hear the third time's the charm.
Thanks for stopping by. Have a great day!

[VancouverSpecial]

Flywheel,
Thanks for posting your efforts, I'm sure you will find success sooner rather than later.

You could try needle nose vice grips to hold the key. They are much smaller than standard vice grips and seem closer in function to a proper impressioning handle, not to mention they are cheap. I've had success using them, but only after creating multiple non-working franken-keys though.

Kind regards,
Sean