Commando Lock Company Sale!

[Aedalas]

After all the great feedback we've been receiving from you all we are looking seriously at a change to our keyway for better security. It will still be standard. Yale has been suggested multiple times. If I could get a general yes or no from the experts, we'll go with the one you most recommend. Any takers?!!

Paracentric still gives me a fair bit of trouble, I think Yale would be a good idea here. No worries about the hardware store not having those blanks either.

[GWiens2001]

Yale blanks do seem like a good idea.

Gordon

[MBI]

Regarding the keys, yes they are M1 by design. We originally planned to work to established standards so that you as the consumer could more easily duplicate when desired. As a new company, we don't expect to see our keys in inventory at the hardware stores. It also played in to some of our designs for bump resistance. The other major reason was to match some of the specifications of Brinks who for a number of years now has expressed interest in having Commando build a product line for them in USA rather than China where all of there product currently comes from. There are obvious plus and minus to a relationship with a large distributor like Brinks.

The numbers on the keys are code and do not exactly represent the biting. When handling 25k-50k cylinders and double the keys, we need to have numbering for organization. You may see them as random but we start with sets of 10 to 200 plus KA. They take up a lot of space when separated into numbers. When building the lock we have to separate the keys from the cylinders but they always travel close together. Key to cylinder testing is performed any time product is moved to make sure we have matching elements. You can't come into this tired...simple things like a non matching key kind of defeats the purpose of the product!

After all the great feedback we've been receiving from you all we are looking seriously at a change to our keyway for better security. It will still be standard. Yale has been suggested multiple times. If I could get a general yes or no from the experts, we'll go with the one you most recommend. Any takers?!!

Well this pretty much answers one of my two questions in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=137&t=7421

My other question I asked over in that thread is: in addition to using the same blank, do your cylinders use the same depth and space specifications as Master lock?

[rai]

Ok, and would the yale be on a pin and spring spacing that also is compatible.

there are already a lot of abus and other locks that have a yale type keyway, but this keyway has many variants and they are not intercompatible.
some keys that are apparently the same to the eye, have differences in thickness and other variables. Thats why locksmiths prefer abus blanks to a generic yale that will probably/possibly fit.
I think that masters US locks have a keyway that is nearly a standard master keyway, but its just a bit thinner.

[Josh66]

I personally don't find the Yale keyway that much of an obstacle - even though it's paracentric, it's pretty 'roomy'. I do like it better than the M1 keyway though.

There is a keyway that Brinks uses on some locks - I don't know what it's called. The nickel plated marine lock uses it (model number 101-40801. Here's a picture of it). It's basically a smaller version of the Yale keyway. That one, I do find harder to pick. Same profile as the Yale, just smaller. I'm not sure how common those blanks are (or what they are called) at hardware stores and such though.

If you're talking about some kind of deal with Brinks, using one of their keyways might have advantages...

So, I say either Yale or the smaller Brinks version.

[LockManipulator]

no idea why, but the schlage sc1 keyway is the worst ever! it's a total killer! i can deal with just about any keyway but that one. it's crazy hard for me to pick

[Aedalas]

no idea why, but the schlage sc1 keyway is the worst ever! it's a total killer! i can deal with just about any keyway but that one. it's crazy hard for me to pick

Interesting timing.

[Oldfast]

.... After all the great feedback we've been receiving from you all we are looking seriously at a change to our keyway for better security. It will still be standard. Yale has been suggested multiple times. If I could get a general yes or no from the experts, we'll go with the one you most recommend. Any takers?!! ....

I've already said it, but I'll say it again. It's SO nice to see a company eager for feedback and willing to
make changes! Very refreshing! Very. For what it's worth, you have a very respectful nod from me Sirs.

In regards to your question; Admittedly, I'm not by any means qualified to make any specific suggestions as to
the exact keyway you could/should go with. But as a hobbiest my soul purpose is to defeat the lock... so my
thoughts should hold at least some value.

Speaking strictly in terms of security as it pertains to picking: It never ceases to amaze me how many companies
seem to have overlooked just how critical a keyway is. I'd go so far as to say it's just as (if not more) important
than the type of pins used. I'll bet we can all think back and remember a lock that had nothing but standard pins,
yet gave us more difficulty than one filled with security pins.... simply because of an evil keyway.

American lock is a great example. Had they gone with a different keyway, I'd almost rate it as a moderately
difficult lock to pick. Instead, the AM3 keyway affords us ample room for manipulation. This means that an
extreme high-low bitting (even one well outside of the MACS) poses no more threat to me than a very easy
straight across bitting.

I know that some insanely exotic keyway is not feasible for your purpose here lol. I realize the keyway you settle on
must fit some criteria... cost I'm sure is a factor. And as you've mentioned, accessibility of the blanks for the end user.
I've rambled a bit, but what I'm getting at is this - it's a very important decision. Take your time and choose wisely.

At the rate you're going, I forsee an end result of a very nice, general purpose lock, superior to the alternative....
which currently is a laminated Master Lock. The business I currently work at covers alot of ground and involves alot
of locks (chains, gates, sheds, electric boxes, etc.). In the near future, I'll be owner and operator of this business.
And I can tell you right now, I wouldn't hesitate to replace ALL currently used Masters Locks with your locks : )

Keep up the good work!

[LockManipulator]

no idea why, but the schlage sc1 keyway is the worst ever! it's a total killer! i can deal with just about any keyway but that one. it's crazy hard for me to pick

Interesting timing.

i hadn't read that thread yet lol it's pretty funny cuz i have a lockpicking "class" where i rockclimb at everyday. It's just whichever of my friends that are there that want to learn that day i teach them, and i was explaining the difference between sc1 and sc4 yesterday.

[elbowmacaroni]

Josh, I would agree with you in general. However, the Y1 keyway is quite often a stumbling block for many if not most beginners as they step up from the total crap locks like kwikset, weiser, master, etc. It is a bit tricky for most at first to learn that you have turn the pick as you lift to get around the paracentric ward on the left with it's curve. Regardless, it would still be a better option than a master profile keyway IMHO.

-Elbow

I personally don't find the Yale keyway that much of an obstacle - even though it's paracentric, it's pretty 'roomy'. I do like it better than the M1 keyway though.

There is a keyway that Brinks uses on some locks - I don't know what it's called. The nickel plated marine lock uses it (model number 101-40801. Here's a picture of it). It's basically a smaller version of the Yale keyway. That one, I do find harder to pick. Same profile as the Yale, just smaller. I'm not sure how common those blanks are (or what they are called) at hardware stores and such though.

If you're talking about some kind of deal with Brinks, using one of their keyways might have advantages...

So, I say either Yale or the smaller Brinks version.

[easy-e]

I really like these locks and I can't say enough about Patrick and Commando Lock. I sent an e-mail to commando lock about boron and brass shackles and Patrick just called me to talk about the locks and to tell me the other shackles won't be available for a few more months. They are also working on a new prototype with a yale keyway in addition to a new mix of security pins on both top and bottom. So we should have new more challenging locks to play with!

They are also working on a shackle guard for the I-Change series locks but as most of us have found out you could put them on any of them by picking them CCW.

[Logan]

Now that I'm back I think I ought to place an order with Pat to see what changes have been made since I've been away. The last one I got was when he was testing out the detint that inhibited feedback and made those security pins quite a bit trickier.