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Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Project

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10ringo10

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Post Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:30 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Just noticed something about the cutting blades ..there not actually the conventional slotters.
They are more like metal saws ..this changes the search and cost dramatically on this project.
Well happy about this ...it makes this more affordable for people As a project .
Professional or hobbiest

Ringo
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GWiens2001

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Post Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:54 am

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Blade pics and measurements from the Abloy Disclock/Disclock Pro key machine.

Ye Olde Finger-Lopper 2000
Image

Image

Blade thickness 1.99mm
Image

Blade diameter 99.87 mm
Image

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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10ringo10

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Post Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:33 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Very impressive looking finger lopper
Really appreciate your contribution to this and Many other topics over the years.

Abloy key cutting https://imgur.com/a/nhKUNww many pics

With that cutting blade again it pops up alot ..If you know it's name and who supplies it
Let us know

Update . Found them
Swiss company ALESA makes and sells the same blade for Abloy including the 2.5 mm for the classic / high profile.

Ringo
Last edited by 10ringo10 on Sat Dec 17, 2022 2:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Wizer

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Post Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:16 am

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

That is a big blade, Gordon.
My cutters for Classic are 63x2,5 & 65x2,5mm.
For Exec I have 80x2mm.
Silca program told to use cutter SG13/SG13W for Disclock & -Pro. 64,6x2mm.
So I think any 2mm slotter could work.
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10ringo10

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Post Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:55 am

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Morning folks its day 8 ..I think of the project
Already we've made a start and started to communicate on the project set out

Spacing
I want to talk spacings for the cuts all 10 of them ..this is the hardest task
From tip to bow or key head a 2mm slot cut times 10 cuts 2 X 10 = 20mm
In a 16.3 mm space does not go it does not fit ..

So we have cuts over lapping or cuts to work out .
Please tell me someone they have the space info already on there software or
Written down ..already

If you've spent sometime working this out over the past week ,month,year
now's the time to shine...and post up your findings

Thanks to Wizer for is help this morning on this project from the home of the abloy

Ringo
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Wizer

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Post Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:28 am

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Compairing a Disclock key to Exec I believe the spacing is the same.
I don´t have charts, but I measured the spacing with a caliper. 1,75mm.
You may want to check if its right. The Disclock key I have has the DBS dimple so close to the handle there woud be 14 discs total.
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10ringo10

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Post Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:07 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Will have a look and post a pick up when I get in.
Hope it's that simple and all cuts are equally spaced
Think what's thrown me off are the ones cut that don't look to overlap
But this could be because the cut is lower than the other Cut at the side of it
As the discs are set out all uniform inside ....hmm wonders to himself lol

Think its 16.3mm between the 10 cuts not counting tip
So Should be 1.63 X 10 if it works this way just sounds too simple .

Possibly best to get a framon block out to see if there's one with
Spacing 1.63 already... and if there is lay it along side the cuts found on key .
Failing this scrib a metal strip with 10 marks 1.63 mm 3.26mm etc :geek:


Ringo
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10ringo10

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Post Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:21 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

So I've got a block in mind for this I can go straight to Block 6 at 0.067 looks like.
My findings on framons block info :geek: Working off 1.63 mm or 0.064 space for 10 cuts on the abloy
Framons block info spacings https://imgur.com/a/rWDIZJL

Looks to be only a slight difference ..but enought to make spacing 0.030 out on last cut

so going to scib a thin strip of metal at this point ..for testing those cuts needed.

But just noticed block 5 spacing 0.129 would be every 2 cuts .. so worth a test on this one first. :geek: :D

Updated . After the first cut of 2mm spacing looks to be every 1.5mm increments Up to the last cut of 2mm
First and last cut 2 X 2mm is 4mm
8 overlapping cuts of 1.5mm is 12 mm with a cut overlapping 0.5 mm ...but will try 1.6mm increments also :geek:
Fits the length 16mm and 10 cuts for the abloy disklock .
Last edited by 10ringo10 on Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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10ringo10

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Post Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:08 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

So great progress overnight on the spacings ..they are worked out And did a update above
On my workings out it was straight forward really

And where posted for a brief period of time this morning
Before I decided to remove them ..
Any team member of forum can pm me directly for them if needed...cracked that .

Moving on to the build given we have the required info to cut a key
And as depth can only be worked out once the adaptor is built
For angle and degree required plus the framon as a very good exact depth gauge.

Move on to ROTATION

I've given this some thought over the past week and come up with a simple idea of a
Cogs system along with a hand crank or knob style device to turn each individual
Cut required .. fixed from the side of adaptor .

Good luck guys on your individual builds



Ringo
Last edited by 10ringo10 on Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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10ringo10

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Post Sat Dec 17, 2022 2:18 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Found the company that does the blades for Abloy machines .
ALESA a Swiss firm ..side milling cutter Blade ...glad I found this as a lot of machines
I've seen for the abloy keys have these fitted . https://imgur.com/a/FXU433D

"Abheben mit Werkzeug aus der Schweiz - ALESA AG" https://www.alesa.ch

https://imgur.com/a/NEUlaWX



Ringo
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Visitor

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Post Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:31 am

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Just coming in on this thread, not read it properly but after a quick skim through the last few posts I believe I have a Ford (and jaguar/Aston martin) tibbie cutting machine that would peak your interest in its design and execution of how it cuts the angled cuts. It's in storage as I've moved house but I go regularly and if its somthing you're interested in I can find it out and take some pictures for you unless a simular machine has already been mentioned of course.
I will read the thread properly later and get up to speed.
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10ringo10

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Post Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:40 am

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Morning folks .received a email this morning regarding a slotter for the project
So we needed a 2mm for the framon or hpc blitz ...which is not available direct from them
This slot cutter will fit both as a 9.53 bore
After looking into the side milling cutter on Gordon's machine it's not possible for bore size on this
Project

Email from FOSELECT TOP SWISS COMPANY plus a additional cost of shippings From 9 Euro it stated

Hi Ringo,

Thank you for contacting us.

The price of 56.016.H10 slot cutter is 43.91€/pc.

You can order it directly on our website: http://www.foselect.com/index.php?dispa ... 0313&sl=EN

If you would like any additional information, please do not hesitate to contact us.


Best regards,



Loïc
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Wizer

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Post Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:11 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

I have only good things to say about their products and customer service, including packing and delivery.
But a colleque of mine ordered blades that could replace the original Abloy cutters (expencive), and said they would shatter and were no good. Maybe this was partly due to them cutting steel blanks.
All I have oredered were mint. I like the option to have the cutters coated with different materials, alltho I dont know if they last any longer.
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10ringo10

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Post Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:20 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Yeah at first I had thought the abloy cutting blade had to have the special offset cutting blades to produce a working key .
But if someone that wrote that paper had never seen one actually cut He may change his work Or do another paper.

The disklock cuts are semetrical IE cut same on both sides ..so key will work the same way no matter how keys inserted.

If i had not seen a abloy disklock key being cut and only seen the cutting blade I would assume the same ..the offset style of cutting blade used Matters .
but the carbide bits on the blades still face the same way :shock: The carbide cutter bit angle is different only in design.
So keys only cuts in one direction ..so no forward and counter rotation Cutting takes place or is required ..when cutting the key

Full rotation However in one direction is enough to produce cuts on each side of key ...angle cuts Being the same and semetrical Is my observation .. and don't see any change in cutting direction on the abloy key by useing the offset style cutting blade for disklock
A two sided offset blade spinning in two directions ..is not what I have observed At all on a hand cranked Abloy Disklock machine that turns key only in one direction with overlapping cuts ...
You would think Id have to test this or check it out if I was to write a paper on it. :fu: given a flat slotter blade may also do the same job and is a special blade really needed.

https://imgur.com/a/64f4tbI

The same style blades are being used on machines for classic and high profile and only cut in one direction ...and don't
Appear to be different in heights either to make a split or stepped looking cut .
So the flat slotter blade it is ...weapon of choice :smile: Reading other people's works can sometimes be helpful or not.

Ringo
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10ringo10

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Post Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:05 pm

Re: Framon 2 abloy adaptor build Disklock Pro / Team Projec

Morning folks I got the old magnet out today to check the abloy keys to see for myself if indeed they where steel
Back in the day given abloy keys and locks have been around along time .

Some where steel and even brass but the few abloy disklock keys are a alloy ..magnet does not stick
A good point Wizer commented on earlier as I've snapped teeth off blades cutting steel keys before and it's not nice .
Maybe check your blanks if in any doubt ..suppliers may provide better keys these days that are more cutter friendly.

Happy X mas

Ringo
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