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Bad idea....?

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Jinglesanator

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Posts: 334

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Post Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:38 pm

Bad idea....?

Is it a bad idea to carry picks around with me in my wallet? I have 3 mini hook picks and a bent pen clip. I basically keep them if I lose my house key and I need to get in.
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the lockpickkid

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Post Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Bad idea....?

It really depends on what state you are in, for instance, in the state of California if you are caught with these you could be in a bit of trouble, but if you are somewhere such as Oregon or Idaho, as long as you are not breaking into anything or have these tools in your posession along with stolen items, your fine.
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awol70

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Post Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: Bad idea....?

Jinglesanator wrote:Is it a bad idea to carry picks around with me in my wallet? I have 3 mini hook picks and a bent pen clip. I basically keep them if I lose my house key and I need to get in.

being under-age, i wouldn't...they will just get taken...
however in canada they (the police) must prove INTENT...if you carry a practice lock, along with the receipt ,
the police are forced into recognizing the fact that your only "intent" is to open a lock,which you in fact own and have a receipt for,
and as was my case, forced to return your tools.
(i was picking a small disc lock that i had just bought, at the bus stop, as i often do, and the bicycle police rolled up and began
attempting to walk all over my constitutional rights by saying that i was in possession of "break-in tools",and taking them, by illegally snatching them out of my combat jacket pocket, without consent of search, or placing me under arrest, (breaking the LAW themselves!)
ie: illegal search and seizure
i told them that i was well aware of my rights they must prove intent, showed them my lock and receipt and
they were forced , by the shift supervisor ( and the law.) to return my property.
now this is applicable in canada, but i know in the U.S. laws can vary greatly from state to state, so check your LOCAL state, and regional by-laws, to make sure
you play not only within and abiding the law, but also within your constitutional rights as a U.S. Citizen.
hope that helps a bit.
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Jinglesanator

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Location: United States

Post Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:40 pm

Re: Bad idea....?

Thanks awol, I'll take them out for now, but until I can find the damn web site that tells me the laws I'll scrounge for some loose paper clips if I lose my key... :mrgreen:
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HallisChalmers

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Post Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Bad idea....?

Jinglesanator wrote:Thanks awol, I'll take them out for now, but until I can find the damn web site that tells me the laws I'll scrounge for some loose paper clips if I lose my key... :mrgreen:


Jingles: Try this link http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/466-469.html

Keyword here is "intent".



California Penal Code Sections 466-469
WEAPONS

466. Every person having upon him or her in his or her possession a
picklock, crow, keybit, crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers,
water-pump pliers, slidehammer, slim jim, tension bar, lock pick gun,
tubular lock pick, floor-safe door puller, master key, ceramic or
porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool
with intent feloniously to break or enter into any building, railroad
car, aircraft, or vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in
the Vehicle Code, or who shall knowingly make or alter, or shall
attempt to make or alter, any key or other instrument named above so
that the same will fit or open the lock of a building, railroad car,
aircraft, vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in the Vehicle
Code, without being requested to do so by some person having the
right to open the same, or who shall make, alter, or repair any
instrument or thing, knowing or having reason to believe that it is
intended to be used in committing a misdemeanor or felony, is guilty
of a misdemeanor. Any of the structures mentioned in Section 459
shall be deemed to be a building within the meaning of this section.




466.1. Any person who knowingly and willfully sells or provides a
lock pick, a tension bar, a lock pick gun, a tubular lock pick, or a
floor-safe door puller, to another, whether or not for compensation,
shall obtain the name, address, telephone number, if any, date of
birth, and driver's license number or identification number, if any,
of the person to whom the device is sold or provided. This
information, together with the date the device was sold or provided
and the signature of the person to whom the device was sold or
provided, shall be set forth on a bill of sale or receipt. A copy of
each bill of sale or receipt shall be retained for one year and
shall be open to inspection by any peace officer during business
hours.
Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of
a misdemeanor.



466.3. (a) Whoever possesses a key, tool, instrument, explosive, or
device, or a drawing, print, or mold of a key, tool, instrument,
explosive, or device, designed to open, break into, tamper with, or
damage a coin-operated machine as defined in subdivision (b), with
intent to commit a theft from such machine, is punishable by
imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by
fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both.
(b) As used in this section, the term "coin-operated machine"
shall include any automatic vending machine or any part thereof,
parking meter, coin telephone, coin laundry machine, coin dry
cleaning machine, amusement machine, music machine, vending machine
dispensing goods or services, or moneychanger.



466.5. (a) Every person who, with the intent to use it in the
commission of an unlawful act, possesses a motor vehicle master key
or a motor vehicle wheel lock master key is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(b) Every person who, with the intent to use it in the commission
of an unlawful act, uses a motor vehicle master key to open a lock or
operate the ignition switch of any motor vehicle or uses a motor
vehicle wheel lock master key to open a wheel lock on any motor
vehicle is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) Every person who knowingly manufactures for sale, advertises
for sale, offers for sale, or sells a motor vehicle master key or a
motor vehicle wheel lock master key, except to persons who use such
keys in their lawful occupations or businesses, is guilty of a
misdemeanor.
(d) As used in this section:
(1) "Motor vehicle master key" means a key which will operate all
the locks or ignition switches, or both the locks and ignition
switches, in a given group of motor vehicle locks or motor vehicle
ignition switches, or both motor vehicle locks and motor vehicle
ignition switches, each of which can be operated by a key which will
not operate one or more of the other locks or ignition switches in
such group.
(2) "Motor vehicle wheel lock" means a device attached to a motor
vehicle wheel for theft protection purposes which can be removed only
by a key unit unique to the wheel lock attached to a particular
motor vehicle.
(3) "Motor vehicle wheel lock master key" means a key unit which
will operate all the wheel locks in a given group of motor vehicle
wheel locks, each of which can be operated by a key unit which will
not operate any of the other wheel locks in the group.



466.6. (a) Any person who makes a key capable of operating the
ignition of a motor vehicle or personal property registered under the
Vehicle Code for another by any method other than by the duplication
of an existing key, whether or not for compensation, shall obtain
the name, address, telephone number, if any, date of birth, and
driver's license number or identification number of the person
requesting or purchasing the key; and the registration or
identification number, license number, year, make, model, color, and
vehicle identification number of the vehicle or personal property
registered under the Vehicle Code for which the key is to be made.
Such information, together with the date the key was made and the
signature of the person for whom the key was made, shall be set forth
on a work order. A copy of each such work order shall be retained
for two years, shall include the name and permit number of the
locksmith performing the service, and shall be open to inspection by
any peace officer or by the Bureau of Collection and Investigative
Services during business hours or submitted to the bureau upon
request.
Any person who violates any provision of this subdivision is
guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) The provisions of this section shall include, but are not
limited to, the making of a key from key codes or impressions.
(c) Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to
prohibit the duplication of any key for a motor vehicle from another
key.


466.7. Every person who, with the intent to use it in the
commission of an unlawful act, possesses a motor vehicle key with
knowledge that such key was made without the consent of either the
registered or legal owner of the motor vehicle or of a person who is
in lawful possession of the motor vehicle, is guilty of a
misdemeanor.



466.8. (a) Any person who knowingly and willfully makes a key
capable of opening any door or other means of entrance to any
residence or commercial establishment for another by any method
involving an onsite inspection of such door or entrance, whether or
not for compensation, shall obtain, together with the date the key
was made, the street address of the residence or commercial
establishment, and the signature of the person for whom the key was
made, on a work order form, the following information regarding the
person requesting or purchasing the key:
(1) Name.
(2) Address.
(3) Telephone number, if any.
(4) Date of birth.
(5) Driver's license number or identification number, if any.
A copy of each such work order shall be retained for two years and
shall be open to inspection by any peace officer or by the Bureau of
Collection and Investigative Services during business hours or
submitted to the bureau upon request.
Any person who violates any provision of this subdivision is
guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to
prohibit the duplication of any key for a residence or commercial
establishment from another such key.
(c) Locksmiths licensed by the Bureau of Collection and
Investigative Services are subject to the provisions set forth in
Chapter 8.5 (commencing with Section 6980) of Division 3 of the
Business and Professions Code.
(d) The provisions of this section shall include, but are not
limited to, the making of a key from key codes or impressions.



466.9. (a) Every person who possesses a code grabbing device, with
the intent to use it in the commission of an unlawful act, is guilty
of a misdemeanor.
(b) Every person who uses a code grabbing device to disarm the
security alarm system of a motor vehicle, with the intent to use the
device in the commission of an unlawful act, is guilty of a
misdemeanor.
(c) As used in this section, "code grabbing device" means a device
that can receive and record the coded signal sent by the transmitter
of a motor vehicle security alarm system and can play back the
signal to disarm that system.



468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of,
conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more
than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device
or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm
which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and
electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually
determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.
This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession
of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United
States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement
officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the
enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the
use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for
scientific research or educational purposes.



469. Any person who knowingly makes, duplicates, causes to be
duplicated, or uses, or attempts to make, duplicate, cause to be
duplicated, or use, or has in his possession any key to a building or
other area owned, operated, or controlled by the State of
California, any state agency, board, or commission, a county, city,
or any public school or community college district without
authorization from the person in charge of such building or area or
his designated representative and with knowledge of the lack of such
authorization is guilty of a misdemeanor.

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