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19A bottom pins for A2

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 7:16 pm
by 8core
I'm interested in the concept of 19A bottom pins for the A2 system. Does any current manufacturer produce and sell these oddball pins? I can find nothing from the main manufacturers of aftermarket pins, nor in the CD431 combinating kit. I understand the theory, but as a visual learner... seeing is believing!

Re: 19A bottom pins for A2

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 7:30 pm
by Riyame
I have never seen them for sale, just like the Best spool and steel pin segments that were used in the 5C UL listed cylinders. Likely a factory only option.

Quote taken from LP101 by David Swearingen
I just said all that to say this: The special "lockout cores" in question are pinned with a special extremely long pin tumbler (they call them "pin segments") that extends way up past the regular shear line, all the way up to the control shear line. Therefore, it is physically impossible for ANY best key (or lock pick) to "operate" the core; it can only be removed. These long pins are called "19A" pins; the standard pins are 0A through 9A. The special pins are actually the equivalent length of a #19 depth, and can only be used in a space where the control key is cut to a #9 depth. Typically there will be only one such pin in a lockout core because there will be only one #9 cut on the control key, so their wording "special Best pin segmentS" plural is technically incorrect and misleading.

Re: 19A bottom pins for A2

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 8:16 pm
by 8core
That's a shame, as I would love to source just a few to play around with. That quote is spot on too. Great write-up describing the concept. And yes, I have also spent time -- unsuccessfully -- trying to find those Best spool and steel pin segments. For bottom spools, I've settled on those MAKO Locks security pins which are okay, but would prefer factory original. Never tried Kaba Peaks bottom spools. Curious if they would work... but if I recall correctly, aren't they slightly different depths than standard A2 bottoms? Anyway, thanks for chiming in.

Re: 19A bottom pins for A2

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 8:14 am
by Visitor
I'm not familiar with this concept but reading the above quote I deem it to be incorrect where its states a lockpick will not set the pin.
As we all know, if a key is usable a lockpick is usable. A lockpick is just a variable key in essence.

You could try contacting either the manufacturer for help or a locksmith who deals in the locks for any scrap ones you can have the pins out of.

Re: 19A bottom pins for A2

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:45 am
by Riyame
Visitor wrote:I'm not familiar with this concept but reading the above quote I deem it to be incorrect where its states a lockpick will not set the pin.
As we all know, if a key is usable a lockpick is usable. A lockpick is just a variable key in essence.


The statement only references the operating shear line. Since the pin is so long it extends past the operating shear line into the bible only the control shear line is accessible (with a 9 cut key). This is why it is called a lockout core as there is no physical way to open the lock, only to remove the core.

Re: 19A bottom pins for A2

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 7:39 am
by Visitor
So this pin doesn't stop the plug turning but setting it allows the plug to be removed?

Re: 19A bottom pins for A2

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 7:32 pm
by 8core
The 19A pin is one long solid pin which goes through the operating shearline in at least one chamber. Since the pin is solid and there is no break in the pin, the operating shearline cannot turn, thus negating all operating keys. However, the top of the 19A pin sits flush at the control shearline. As such the core can only function with the control key to insert/remove the core.