key for Yale Bicentric help needed

[escapenrv]

My first post!
Trying to make a key for one of 3 Yale Bicentric padlocks I bought that had no keys. I have not been able to pick them yet so I can take apart to make keys until I get one opened.
With the help of RINGO on this board, I have found blanks for the master plugs which are the same on all three locks. The master is an Ilco 997ER (Silca YA3R).
I have not been able to ID the control key blank yet but I have filed down and made a blank from a Schlage SC20 blank (6pin) which I will trim down to 5 pin (SC19) length at some point.
I have been able to get just enough impressions from the lock to see that the spacing is;
to 1st cut .150 then in .140 inc to .290, .430, .570, .710. These fit the specs of a Yale small pin key.
RINGO gave me cut codes for my 3 plugs as being 22030, 10400, and 40131. Many thanks for this info. The plug numbers are, in that order, 1033, 3087, and 1826.
I can not find depth info that seems to work with is lock. I don't want to start filing a key without better info as it is extra work to make a new blank if I ruin the first one.
I have photos of the key ways but in the JPEG format and I can't seem to be able to convert them to the IMG format that this forum requires.
I would be grateful for any help, ideas, magic words or whatever from the members. If I can get one lock open, I can take apart all of the locks and make proper keys for all of the plugs.
Steve

[quabillion]

can you drive out the pins that hold the body on? IIRC there are 3 brass pins than can be pushed through and the "guts" can be removed from the bottom. once the lock is disassembled you can make your keys by measuring the pins.

[escapenrv]

Yes, I can and have removed the 3 pins from one lock but the shackle has to be open in order to get the outer case to slide up enough to get the shackle removed so everything will then slid out. My problem is that I can't get one of the padlocks open yet. If I can open any one of the three, I can open and take apart all 3 locks and make good keys.
Looking for magic I guess.....
Steve

[jeffmoss26]

In order to post pics you need to upload them to a site like imgur or photobucket then paste the IMG links.

[quabillion]

is it possible to shim the shackle open? is there enough clearance?

[10ringo10]

keep at it steve - you will get there in the end without magic

[xeo]

In order to post pics you need to upload them to a site like imgur or photobucket then paste the IMG links.

You do not need to use a 3rd party photo host to post pictures to Keypicking. When making a new post use "Upload attachment" at the bottom.

[jeffmoss26]

My bad. I always use photobucket.

[escapenrv]

Thanks for photo help. I am trying to attach two photos of locks and keyway close-up.
Hope it helps...
Steve

http://s24.photobucket.com/user/escapen ... 7.jpg.html




http://s24.photobucket.com/user/escapen ... b.jpg.html

[jeffmoss26]

At a quick glance, the user keyways look like one of the G sections. I'd try a Y4 which is the master for that series.

[escapenrv]

Thanks Jeff but the Y4 will not fit, it is backwards and the groves are wrong. It is very close to the SC20 (6pin) and SC19 (5pin). I have been able to file the SC20 down to fit.
Now I am trying to get the depths right. The spacing is like that of the small pin Yale but the pins are not. I can measure the first two pins in each lock and guess at the others but I would like to find the actual depths that are used before I start filing. These Yales do not impression well and I don't have those skills down pat yet.
I am going to try to shim the shackle but I don't think that will work but who knows.
I can't find any S&D info that fits what I measure. Still working on the problems....
Thanks for all the help
Steve

[jeffmoss26]

Since you said it's the reverse of Y4 (GMK) it's most likely a V or Y series keyway.
The Schlage blanks may work but it's not "proper"

[escapenrv]

I understand the SC blanks are not right....I can't find the correct blank local yet and don't want to order several wrong blanks trying to find the correct one. I have a few more LS shops to visit in the area. Maybe I'll find some but at least I can use the SC blanks to try some cuts, impressions, guess work in the mean time.
Thanks for the help....
Steve

[10ringo10]

Not checked them all steve - but number 1 looks good to me... old old blanks

space & Depths for the bicentric are already posted up also - search bicentric in advanced and you shall find !

[jeffmoss26]

Thanks for the info Ringo.