Need beginner help

[scudo]

Only in to this 3 days, I have managed to rake open a padlock a few times (some quicker than others) but having difficulty picking individual pins. I accept I need buckets loads more experience but this is how this padlock feels to me.
It is a Halfords brass padlock with no ID numbers.
I `think` there are 5 pins, when I slide a feeler pick in its like just before the last pin there is a ridge which makes it awkward for me to get past this especially when the tension bar is in. Some of the nearer pins I can `set` them ok but the last pin always seems to spring back out and feels under stronger tension than the others.
When I release the tension bar I can usually hear a series of clicks so I assume I am making some progress. When I use the rake sometimes (not always) I feel slight movement in the tension bar so hopefully I am beginning to pick up the sensitivity from it, I didnt realise at first how sensitive this is.
Anyhow my objective with this padlock is to single pick the individual pins.
(I hope my terminology is ok) Any guidance would be grateful for an absolute beginner.

Scudo

[dbart]

Only in to this 3 days, I have managed to rake open a padlock a few times (some quicker than others) but having difficulty picking individual pins. I accept I need buckets loads more experience but this is how this padlock feels to me.
It is a Halfords brass padlock with no ID numbers.
I `think` there are 5 pins, when I slide a feeler pick in its like just before the last pin there is a ridge which makes it awkward for me to get past this especially when the tension bar is in. Some of the nearer pins I can `set` them ok but the last pin always seems to spring back out and feels under stronger tension than the others.
When I release the tension bar I can usually hear a series of clicks so I assume I am making some progress. When I use the rake sometimes (not always) I feel slight movement in the tension bar so hopefully I am beginning to pick up the sensitivity from it, I didnt realise at first how sensitive this is.
Anyhow my objective with this padlock is to single pick the individual pins.
(I hope my terminology is ok) Any guidance would be grateful for an absolute beginner.

Scudo

Hi Scudo,

Kind of funny. I'm also brand new to all of this and I seem to have the opposite problem. I have been able to single pin pick two padlocks but I can't for the life of me, rake them.

You mentioned feeling a ridge near the back of your lock. I also feel what seems like a ridge at the back of my Master padlock. The only advise I have is to have some patience and take it slow. I find that turning the pick slightly to the left helps me get around the wards. It's all a mater of feeling your way through. Sorry, I can't give any more insight as I still have a looooooong way to go!

Dbart

[GWiens2001]

Scudo,

One problem with raking is that you don't get the same feedback as when you SPP.

The problem you are experiencing may be security pins. I find these much easier to deal with by SPP (single pin picking). If you lift a pin and it moves freely with only spring pressure from the pin spring when the plug is under tension, then it is not set, and is not binding. If it moves completely, and you feel no pressure from the spring, then either the pin is correctly set, or the driver pin is a security pin and is not set correctly.

When you are at the stage you described, with 'four pins set, and the final pin not binding', you are likely dealing with security pins. Try using a hook or half diamond pick and try applying a little lifting pressure to each of your 'set' pins. Pay careful attention to your tension wrench. If your tension wrench tries to turn itself backwards when you lift a pin (counter-rotation), then you are dealing with a security pin (spool, etcetera) in that pin stack. Lift that pin further until it sets again. It may cause other pins to drop first. That is ok, just reset them again once the pin stack you are lifting is set. Keep doing that with each pin stack until the lock opens.

Only keep lifting pins that give you counter rotation. If you lift, and the pin does not want to move up any more without significant pressure, do not keep lifting it, it is probably already properly set. Just about any pin will give some tiny amount of counter rotation if you are forcing it so hard that it is being forced over the sheer line in spite of it being properly set.

So to summarize, try lifting the pins again. If you get counter rotation, ease the tension a bit and continue to set the pin. If you get no counter rotation on that pin, move to another pin stack. If no pins are binding or set, use more tension. If some are set, and the rest are not setting, either you are dealing with with security pins, or a pin is over set.

Gordon

[scudo]

Thanks for the info, I will spend some time over the next few days trying to identify the pins and see if I can make some progress.

Update...

Yipee! I done my first single pin picking tonight on the padlock. Probably more luck than anything but........................

[Neilau]

Congratulations !!

Now you are hooked pun intended !

One factor commonly overlooked by beginners is the tension applied to the tension wrench.

This is a most important factor in picking.

What tends to happen is that your tension increases, subconsciously, as you are picking and you can easily over set pins. Those pins that you hear clicking back down may not necessarily have been correctly set. They are more likely to be over set - ie. raised above the shear line and locked into place by the applied tension.

Learn to be aware of the tension at all times. It can tell you a lot about the lock. Especially when it comes to spool pins.

Generally, when starting to pick a lock you apply light tension and then gradually increase it - if necessary - no hard and fast rules.

You have to develop an awareness of the tension at all time.

As you become more experienced you will be able to tell fairly quickly how much tension to use.

Here I'll put in a plug for Mr. Wizards practice locks. They are inexpensive for what they are and are a fantastic learning tool for SPP. I wish they were available when I first took up this hobby.

Again, congratulations.

Cheers.

[faygo6]

Unless thats a high dollar padlock your probably not dealing with security pins.
If your just getting started picking you may want to concider going to the hardware store and picking up a deadbolt lock. I'm saying this because most pin tumbler pad locks use a spring to hold the shackle in the locked possition. When you apply tension your fighting against this spring and it kills some of the feed back you feel in the tension.

[GWiens2001]

Many of the cheap locks use security pins these days.  Even the cheap padlocks at Harbor Freight (got them new on sale @ 3 locks for $5) with plastic shell have what look to be melted spool driver pins.  







Many locks do not use spool pins, but any padlock (aside from the laminated Master padlocks) that you pick up from Ace Hardware will have at least spool driver pins, and may have serrated driver and or serrated key pins.

Gordon

[faygo6]

Thanks for the update. I haven't torn apart a cheap padlock in some time. I see a trip to Harbor Freight in my near future.

[scudo]

I have asked a few friends for some unused padlocks so maybe then I can rip one apart, should be useful.
One question, I find the tension bar in some cases getting in the way and in another lock its not thick enough, is it worth having a few different sizes or is this just my inexperience?

[GWiens2001]

Personally think a pick set should have more tension wrenches than picks. Yes, variety so make sure you can get a good fit.

Gordon

[the picker]

its always good to have several tension wrenches i have around 7 that i go back and forth with like Neilau said the tension very important.

[Oldfast]

Scudo, CONGRATS on your first successful SPP!!! Exciting stuff!

Sorry I wasn't of some help, but honestly I wasn't quite sure what exactly you were
experiencing as you described it. Thankfully, as you found out, there's no shortage
of helpful and knowledgeable people round here.

And yes, a good variety of tensors. You could always experiment bending and cutting
a variety of your own. Some free and available materials could be: Street sweeper
bristles, bike spokes, or spring steel strips that are found in windshield wipers.

Lookin' forward to hearing about more slayed locks! Keep us posted

[Neilau]

One thing that I forgot to mention.

Watch Xeo's Picking Videos and pay close attention to his tensioning hand.

Watch what he does when he is lifting spool pins.

You can see when he is tensioning hard or soft by how deeply the tool presses into his finger.

Sometimes he bounces the tool around. Sometimes backing off etc.

There is a lot to learn there, apart from marveling at his skills , if you know where to look.

Cheers.

[TarHeelBrit]

For me as a noob picker my biggest problem was, well still is, applying too much pressure to the tension wrench and oversetting the pins. It's very frustrating when you think you're done only to find an overset pin. Strangly enough I've found that using a differnt tension wrench helps a lot. I've gone from a twist-flex to a standard handle and I get better feed back from the lock.

[scudo]

tarHeelBrit, Yes I am having problems as well although in some respects I do feel I have made progress. The lock I managed to SPP I have not managed to replicate although I can still rake it.
I know I am oversetting and working on that. When I start and I am still not sure of how many pins (think 5) I feel for the resistance and try and establish a picking order, I am sure I can feel the one to start with and the first one is so loose it goes up and down just by inverting the padlock and is also set higher, so hopefully I am beginning to sense the pins better. I may buy a practice lock (cutaway) of ebay for around £15 I think that would be an enormous help to me.
Likewise I need some other tension bars which I intend to make. I will probably be better at making the tools than picking locks but hey its enjoyable.