Finally!

[escher7]

As implied in all the comments above, that key shows the lock is also exceedingly easy to pick. There are no pins in your way as you move down the line with your pick. By altering the keying as suggested, you will encounter a situation where one of the first pins will be set low, forcing you to get to the back pins without disturbing the front low pin(s). This requires a hook to go under the low pins to lift the rear ones. I prefer a pick made by Southord for this situation:

[stevesm]

EASY! I still haven't picked it again LOL. I suspect I'm over setting one or more of the pins and the first time was luck. It's a nice steep learning curve. Thanks for pointing out the Southord pick Escher7, I'll see if I can find one before I repin the lock.

[escher7]

EASY! I still haven't picked it again LOL. I suspect I'm over setting one or more of the pins and the first time was luck. It's a nice steep learning curve. Thanks for pointing out the Southord pick Escher7, I'll see if I can find one before I repin the lock.

Didn't mean to sound critical. They are all tough when you are starting out. Gentle pressure on the tension wrench. Find that 1st pin that gives resistance and the raise it slowly until you feel it set. Then move on to the next. If you are getting a real obvious click when you set a pin then you may be applying too much tension. You should feel the pin set, but not with a snap.
Picking the lock once could be luck. Only when you are picking it consistently will you be ready to move on to more difficult bitting.
Good luck.

[stevesm]

No worries Escher7, You can't offend me I've been online for a long time and don't read things in to typed text. No offence taken. I was just playing with you anyhow.

I'm very realistic about how far I have to go and guidance like yours and the rest of the guys here is invaluable to me. I only hope that I can pass it on once I become proficient.

[MrWizard]

That Southord pick shown is offset-diamond pick called The Bill DeForrest Design. Copied by many. Same Idea as a deep curve pick but the deep curved pick works much better. I tried the DeForrest when it first came to market.I found it would be more a hindrance in some locks as just when you know you are about to have a difficult lock picked with deep cuts in from of shallow one way it the back the pick will get stuck and if you continue to mess with it odds are good it will snap off in the lock way deep in the lock. Not what I am liking when the customer is breathing down my neck in 110+ degree heat . I had it happen 2 times in different situations so I don't use it anymore in a real life lockout. The deep curve pick will not get stuck like that and works better for those deep shallow pins situation. As a matter of fact the DeForrest pick is the only type that has ever broke off in a lock for me. I use a standard HPC hook pick on everything it may get bent if it gets in a tight situation. But I can say the deep curve pick can work miracles when nothing else will work.

Richard

[stevesm]

Thanks for the advice Richard. I have already ordered one so I'll see what it's like. Is the deep curve basically like: ?

[MrWizard]

Yes it is like that on both ends making a shallow u shape.
Look at a Falle pick set you will see various depth ones it's good to have one not so deep as well.
I have the entire Falle pick set and many others but they really get no use as I don't need them.

HPC hook pick has worked for almost everything I have had to open since 1978 so it is my go to tool and is the only pick in my everyday pick case carried in my pocket at all times and I do this for a living if that tells you anything. .

[escher7]

I agree that the Southord pick is fragile, but I am not a locksmith and do most of my picking sitting in a recliner in front of the TV. I can see how the pressure of opening a lock on the job might lead to breakage, but in my scenario it works well and I have never broken one. I like it because the shape: 1. Gives a larger surface under the pin, 2. Slides under the next pin more easily than a hook. I am making a copy of the Southord but with a stronger end to reduce the chances of snapping off.

The other reason I am partial to this design is that my go-to pick is a small half-diamond rather than a hook. I do think the Falle curve is interesting so I may make one of those as well. Can't justify the price of a Falle set.

[MrWizard]

There is light years difference when you are under pressure to get a door open in a timely manor. When the customer is waiting and in a hurry and it is hot in the sun in Phoenix Ariz in the summer sweating so bad you can't see cause your eyes are burning from sweat flooding them, then the customer maybe asking you over and over every 2 minutes why is it taking so long, Rockford doesn't take this long, what is the hold up how, much longer is this going to take. And you have a handful of other jobs scheduled for specific times and you thought it should only take a few minutes to pop that door open and be gone.

Then the locks are mounted on a actual door with the door frame close against the area you are working and the locks are not new and clean and working perfectly plus it is totally unknown is this lock installed right and not in a bind because a deadbolt with a bind on the tailpiece doesn't allow the tension pressure to be released on the plug by just slacking off on the wrench. And not all locks are installed right side up plus you have to do this while in a kneeling or squatting position the entire time which gets very stressful if it is taking a long time.

The list of reasons you may not be getting the response you will get sitting in a recliner in a cool house with the lock comfortably in your hand or in a vise on your bench is long. In the real world locks are dirty don't turn smooth pins not falling back down after over lifting them, have oil in them compounded with graphite, pocket lint, calcium build up from water the plug can be in a bind just from those reasons it can be very frustrating. Some locks just fall right open some just don't. As I have noted the only picks I have ever broke off in a lock in 35 years of doing this daily is the DeForrest and it because of the sharp bend design angle and that diamond on the end instead of a curve of a regular hook.

The Falle set is very pricey and is not worth getting unless you really want one. I have it as I wanted have it not because I thought it would make me any better at picking. But I did find the curved picks to be outstanding along with the adjustable tension wrenches. I would have not ever tried a curve pick if I had not gotten the Falle set. Many make their own and they love them. You can make it double ended with curve on one side hook on the other so you can switch without having to put one down and pick up another. Makes that design very cool indeed.

I decided long ago to handcap myself you might say to using only the hook pick and nothing else. So if you do that you get use to the end not having a large area for the pins to rest on makes you more proficient at feeling the pins and becomes very easy and you don't want to use anything else. But I say use what works best for you.

Richard

[psykro]

congratulations on your first pick stevesm! it's a beautiful feeling. i also remember the frustration of not being able to repeat it haha. that still happens to me on every "next level" lock i try, but as i've gotten more experienced the frustration lessens as i know i will eventually get there. as will you.

ignore this if redundant mate:
have you heard of or tried the progressive pinning method? for me, it was invaluable in my initial learning curve. i read that you don't yet have a plug follower- you will need one! if you search progressive pinning you will find ample on it in this site.
i still use it on my next level locks just to get a gauge on how they feed back. it's really fun too, opens up another aspect of this lock universe : ] i concur with the other blokes- don't do it over a smooth hard surface, those pins are bloody hard to find.

good luck with it mate

[stevesm]

Thanks psykro. I've taken note of all the stuff the guys on here have said (including you) and I'm in the process of finding the bits needed. Still haven't re-picked my new lock! But I have picked my first lock lots of times now. I believe you'd call it a Comfort Lock? I have lots of other things competing for my time but I'm not going to stop picking. I had heard of progressive pinning but just not heard it called that.

Cheers.

[psykro]

woops, i meant second lol
comfort lock, ego lock, either will do : ]

[Solomon]

Steve, the majority of yale locks do have security pins. The only yales I've come across without any were older padlocks. I think these particular ones only have a couple though so they won't necessarily drop into a false set, but I can assure you they're in there. Might be worth taking it apart to see! I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it should have 2 spools in there.

[stevesm]

Cheers Solomon. Funny enough, just today, I have noticed the first pin that goes does a little set and then a bigger set. Now, having read your post, I'm pretty sure that's a non-standard pin. Certainly makes sense. If there's two of them in there, I think I know where the other one is. I don't want to dissemble the lock until I've cracked it. I reckon I'll learn more that way. I will be stripping all my locks down sooner or later though.