some CISA padlock questions

[psykro]

hi everyone.
i just got this baby in the mail- no keys, a pack of pins and springs and some plug things and a long retainer pin... i guess the photos will show all that.
my first question is, in the first photo u can see a pin proud of the body of the lock. i am guessing it is a shackle retainer pin or something. what do i do with it though? i've tried [gently cos im not sure] pulling on it with my fingers [the pin, the pin!] but it is at least moderately stuck in there. am i meant to press it all the way in, grind it off...?

DSCN0093.JPG

the hole i gather is for the barrel retainer pin. i drive it in with what?
i'm going to get some grub keys and a tap so i can repin this lock in the future but: is the general approach to just drive what i gather are the pin chamber caps in?

DSCN0092.JPG

also, i notice all the keypins are the same length, so i would file them to different lengths yeah?

any pointers would be great, thanks chaps.

[keymaster1053]

well, what you have is a sub-assembled padlock. you need to find pre-cut keys that will fit the plug. then find the proper length pins for that key. you COULD just use those bottom pins and grind them down to the top of the plug, but be careful not to file the plug itself as it could effect operation. then test operation with all the pins and springs in place, and your finger holding all the springs in. if it works correctly, then tap in the pin covers. (once you put them in, they won't come out without a drill) then as long as the padlock works properly (keep in mind not to pull on the key in the turned position as all will come flying out), gently remove the key while keeping the plug in place, then gently tap that pin that is protruding from the side of the padlock down flush. that will keep the plug in permanently.
hope this helps.
keymaster1053

[psykro]

thanks keymaster, that was some help
regarding the protruding pin- i don't think it is the plug-retainer as it is too far to the side to even line up with any part of the plug. the vacant hole to the left of it in the photo is, i think, the place for a plug-retainer pin. that's why i was wondering if it [the protruder] may be for the shackle, or something else.

on your advice i have decided to go with the key idea. so folks, i am in need of a CISA key, any bitting i guess. here is a shot of the keyway:

DSCN0101.JPG

it is approx 9 mm from bottom to top of keyway

or even any info on the keyway, like it's code, so i can try sourcing a key too.
psykro

[keymaster1053]

[quote="psykro"]thanks keymaster, that was some help
regarding the protruding pin- i don't think it is the plug-retainer as it is too far to the side to even line up with any part of the plug. the vacant hole to the left of it in the photo is, i think, the place for a plug-retainer pin. that's why i was wondering if it [the protruder] may be for the shackle, or something else.

That makes sense, for the shackle. again, don't flush it down until you are certain everything works.

good luck on the key!

[MrWizard]

Keyway looks to me to be a standard Yale 8 keyway. You can get them just about anywhere. Go to any lockshop with the cylinder in your hand ask for a set of precut Yale 8 keys. Try them in the cylinder to be sure they fit fine. I'm sure someone has them laying around on here. I have them but am in USA so easier to get them closer to you.

[psykro]

Keyway looks to me to be a standard Yale 8 keyway. You can get them just about anywhere. Go to any lockshop with the cylinder in your hand ask for a set of precut Yale 8 keys. Try them in the cylinder to be sure they fit fine. I'm sure someone has them laying around on here. I have them but am in USA so easier to get them closer to you.

thanks MrWizard, i can almost smell an assembled CISA now

[oldlock]

It's CS206 (I think) not quite Yale 8.

[psykro]

haha, the plot thickens!
i will take the plug with me when i enter civilisation next week, will find a key at a locksmith shop [i hope] and let u know which one it is

[psykro]

well, i went to a locksmith yesterday to get a key. hmmm, not too welcome in there lol. there was a young bloke who was willing to chat, but who was obviously not THE BOSS ... he seemed pretty cool but the boss, who did the cut, was more like ICY haha
so, i ended up with this awesome display of matched-to-my-barrel key-cutting:

nikon.jpg

anyway, im going to file it when i get back to my joint and see if i can make it line up with the chambers somehow. i got so uncomfortable in there i forgot to ask what the keyway was but the key has YA1 on it .

[keymaster1053]

anyway, im going to file it when i get back to my joint and see if i can make it line up with the chambers somehow. i got so uncomfortable in there i forgot to ask what the keyway was but the key has YA1 on it .

Wow! and that was a locksmith that did that job? I'm ashamed!!!! he clearly didn't want to help you. I hope you didn't pay much.

[psykro]

Wow! and that was a locksmith that did that job? I'm ashamed!!!! he clearly didn't want to help you. I hope you didn't pay much.

clear-ly
charged me $3.75 which was a cheap way to learn i will never go there again. i didn't even realise how crap the key was til i got back to base. at first i was a bit pissed off then i just had to laugh
looking on the bright side- now i get to hang in my shed and make this thing into a key, i love fixing/modifying shit, and this is somthin i haven't done before. then i will hand file those keypins too, and maybe even assemble this lock one day ha!

[mastersmith]

Psykro,

If I may make a suggestion, since you have to modify the key anyway get the pins close to the proper length and finish by filing on the key. Use a pin vise, if you have one, to get the pins close and square on the end and all that good stuff. This should reduce any chance of damaging the plug ( which is a real possibility when filing pins down while in the plug.) Filing the plug will destroy your tolerances, unless you're looking for easy picking! LOL Since the key is going to be modified, let it be the "sacrificial lamb". Good luck! Enjoy this one, first time projects are always the best!
Mark

[psykro]

Psykro,

If I may make a suggestion, since you have to modify the key anyway get the pins close to the proper length and finish by filing on the key. Use a pin vise, if you have one, to get the pins close and square on the end and all that good stuff. This should reduce any chance of damaging the plug ( which is a real possibility when filing pins down while in the plug.) Filing the plug will destroy your tolerances, unless you're looking for easy picking! LOL Since the key is going to be modified, let it be the "sacrificial lamb". Good luck! Enjoy this one, first time projects are always the best!
Mark

thanks Mark, i am open to any suggestions [on this subject haha] anytime. there's a lot i don't know and then there is stuff i don't even know i don't know...
i don't have a pin vice, but i have a trusty dawn in my shed which i made some aluminium soft jaws for. that's a good idea by finishing up on the key.
easy picking? no way!!! the harder the pick, the better the click

[psykro]

ok, well i have an update at last!
had some misfortune with photo deletion so i can't do a stepbestep like i had planned. first thing i did was work on getting the key to line up with the barrel, which i did, but i went pretty deep with a couple of the cuts, which created this little issue:

cisabarrel.jpg

as u can see, 2 and 5 are not gonna work with that key but u live and learn...
way i got round it was to introduce some "master" pins into those 2 stacks. filing the pins took a long time, continually de-clamping, checking, re-clamping. i did finish up on the key like Mark suggested, thanks for that Mark!
i used a flat file and some small warding files, plus my benchvice for the job. fell in love with the brass dust

pindust.JPG

took me a while to get the angles right on the depth cuts so that the key would move in and out. that was the part of the job i am least satisfied with. it works, but its not smooth.
driving in the pins and the shackle cover disk was pretty straightforward, and sanding and polishing is always tedious but enjoyably meditative. ive been pressed for time so i didn't go real fine with the finishing. i am happy that the retaining pins turned out invisible though.

cisa1.JPG

and just to show the key does work

cisa2.JPG

i am yet to pick it- those 2 super low cuts leave a bee's dick clearance between the ward and the pin lol

[keymaster1053]

Great Job!!! that's how we learn.