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Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

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kizza8484

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Post Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:38 am

Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

So been watching alot of American padlocks being picked on YouTube. A few videos now mention that you should turn the plug to the locked position before closing the shackle or the plug could spin to the 3 o'clock position (or 9 o'clock, i cant remember which) and permanently jam the lock.

Can anyone explain what exactly is going on when this happens? I just got a few Amercians off ebay and wanted to find out some more about this.
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Site Admin

Post Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:51 am

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

well none of my americans do that, when i slam the shackle it does spin back further than it should but it dosent acctually lock up, i just need to turn it back a little with a wrench.

awol70 will tell you more, he's experienced the lock jamming on plenty of occations :D

Lew
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GutterClown

Post Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:58 pm

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

Use successively bigger and bigger hammers until the desired effect is achieved.
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j0siah7

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Post Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:35 pm

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

When the keyway is turned and the lock is open after being picked and you slam the shackle shut the cam will contact the little triangle piece at the end of the plug spinning the plug to fast for the shear line to catch it, do a compleat 180 and have your top pins come threw the wrong side of the plug redering your lock unpickable and locked. So when you turn the plug back to the locked position you are avoiding the cam contacting the end of the plug. This has happend to me once, but my local locksmith was able to fix it, still not sure how thow.
Matt's youtube account ---> http://youtube.com/j0siah7

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HallisChalmers

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Post Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:59 pm

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

Tnx j0siah7, I always wondered what the reasoning was behind that bit of advice but I never had it explained until now.
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kizza8484

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Post Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:54 am

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

Hmmm....well believe it or not i've been trying to get a couple of my 5200's to jam. Without the retaining pin in so i can just slip the plug out that is.

I tried it quite a few times with both a key retaining and non-key retaining model. Firstly, the key retaining model - its plug just didn't spin back when i close the shackle. No matter how hard, it just sat there until i turn it to the lock postion manually. So, removed the front plate and then just using the key, turned it anti clockwise (so the bottom of the keyway was at the 3 o'clock postion), where the YouTube vids say it should jam. And sure enough, JAMMED! But my theory is the key retaining mechanism still functions whether you turn the plug clockwise or anti-clockwis; despite the shackle being close. So, I just pushed down on the shackle (its still has a little play in it even when closed) and for some reason that released the plug and i could turn it back to the locked position, good as new. And this is repeatable.

But, with the NON-key reatining version, by unlocking it, then slamming down the shackle; the plug did spin to the jamming position. But, NO JAM! Just a quick turn with a tension wrench and it was back to the business as usual configuration. This too is repeatable.

And a final test was done to see if when the plug was turned completely around it would jam with the keypins slipping into the holes at the bottom of the hull; opposite the bible. Only the key reatining version physically allowed this if you turned the plug anti-clockwise. Could'nt get it to happen by slamming down the shackle (coz like i said earlier this didn't affect the plug on the key-reatining model) but by manually turning it with a tension wrench, got the keypins to jam the lock as described. But by simply turning the lock upside down and tapping it on a desk the pins slipped back into the plug and its was back to normal.

So I've either not gotten it to jam as people have described or have models which simply dont suffer from this.

I've got an 1105 coming soon, might see if that one does it. I'm just curious now.
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Houndour

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Post Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:34 am

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

I recently posted a video (A day or two prior to this topic) where i spewed what i thought was healthy advice about this and it was a regurgitation of Wiz's warnings with these locks. I hadnt actually deliberately spun the plug by slamming the shackle down to find out wether or not the advice was accurate for one specific reason. It came from Wiz. Im not gonna question him on it. If he says dont do it, Im not gonna do it haha. Even to find out if its true.

We need Awol here to figure out how he managed to get one of his to Jam, because he wouldnt just say it unless it happened.

I did accidentily shut the shackle on my green 1100 series, sending the cylinder spinning to about the 130 degree but like everyone here has stated, I just used the tension wrench to pull it back into its position and everything was cool.
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kizza8484

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Post Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:47 am

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

Oh no doubt at all that it does occur. Wiz is the guy to listen to with American locks. Even now i've tried it i'm not going to go slamming down the shackle just in case its an intermittent thing. These Americans are some bloody nice locks and i'd hate to ruin them!
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Site Admin

Post Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

you bastard lol.

just so we're clear i find 1105's a peice of piss to open but this one really is something else.

no matter how hard i tried i just couldnt get the damn thing open, hense my extreme excitment and pissing of the pants when i did (LOL)

Lew
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HallisChalmers

Lord Emeritus of Keypicking HallisChalmers

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Post Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:21 pm

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

Awww...I didn't know Lew was the heart-on-your-sleeve, overly emotional type until I saw this video.

That's ok, Lew...I've been known to get all misty-eyed at the mere thought of my Brinks shrouded... :cry: and downright girlishly excited by my new Kryptonite shrouded...WHICH I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO OPEN!

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! :x
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awol70

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Post Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:43 pm

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

j0siah7 wrote:When the keyway is turned and the lock is open after being picked and you slam the shackle shut the cam will contact the little triangle piece at the end of the plug spinning the plug to fast for the shear line to catch it, do a compleat 180 and have your top pins come threw the wrong side of the plug redering your lock unpickable and locked. So when you turn the plug back to the locked position you are avoiding the cam contacting the end of the plug. This has happend to me once, but my local locksmith was able to fix it, still not sure how thow.

yeah...what he said =)
and he probably used an american wafer-breaker and bypass tool.
its the only way to fix a spun plug,usually.
watch for this same phenomenon on ALL the master pro series,and 900's,
and dont say u weren't warned =)
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kizza8484

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Post Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:28 am

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

I must admit i had a similar reaction to Lew's with one of my 5200's thats a real b!tch to open! All excited i closed the shackle and spun the plug. My heart nearly skipped a beat. I figured after going on so much about it not jamming it surely would now. Luckily it was okay and turned back. By comparison i think Lew's reaction was actually quite masculine compared to mine. But mine wasn't on camera 8-)
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Houndour

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Post Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:09 pm

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

Everyone < Masculinity < Lew

Nuff said.
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Site Admin

Post Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Why lock American locks before closing shackle?

Houndour wrote:Everyone < Masculinity < Lew

Nuff said.


(Finger)

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