Raking is easy???

[dragonkingx]

Hi i have been picking for 2 weeks now i managed to open an master #3 and an club steering wheel lock i figured i would start to crawl before i walk and rake open my first locks locks since everyone says raking is much more easy then spping so i have been going at this lock on and off for 2 weeks http://s897.photobucket.com/albums/ac18 ... g&newest=1 and it refuses to open its an five pinner with at least 3 securities i managed to spp it the first day when i had no idea what i was doing but it has not been open since i have tried different methods of raking but none seem to work the best i can do is get it into an deep false set where the plug rotates to almost opening and the keyway gets more restrictive but it never pops i feel the binding pins but when i go in with an shorthook to set it the others drop down i have seen these raked and spp in 30 sec on youtube but i cant get it open i can go at it for a while and all pins never seem to set i use bottom of keyway tension and this pick set http://www.lockpickshop.com/MPXS-14.html i gives good feed back but maybe since im new to this its my technique? any tips ?

[chris]

If it has securities and you are raking it into a false set then you are gonna have to SPP it from there since the plug is binding up on the spool pins. I've seen locks with securities raked open, but in my opinion (and i am by no means an expert on anything) once you have it false set its easier to SPP it. I know the pins drop down when you are SPP it from the false set,its something you are gonna have to get the feel for. The counter rotation you can feel when pushing on a binding security pin, gotta give it enough force so you can let it rotate backwards but rotate forwards when the pin sets at the sheer line. Like you said you are just beginning, you will get a better feel for it all as you go. Since it seems like you have a pretty good hand on how to rake locks, try stepping it up a bit to starting with SPP from the get go. Figure out which pins are stiff which are not, try to pick it to false set and go from there. Time and patience and practice. I hope this helps you out a little. Don't hesitate to ask anything else you have either.

[Solomon]

The bitting on the key doesn't look too erratic so in theory it should rake open fine, but in actuality you'd have a hell of a time doing it... the reason being you need VERY light tension to rake anything with spools and because it's a padlock with a spring return you're not gonna know if they're all set unless you increase the tension enough to actually rotate the plug - so either you'd have to guess when all the pins are set then try your luck turning the plug OR use fluctuating tension (in which case you'd just end up getting trapped in false set over and over).

Now you should see why raking just ain't gonna do the trick! If this was a cylinder with no spring return you could just rake it with very light tension and it'd open just fine, but it's just not an option with this type of lock. You're better off raking it into false set and SPP'ing from there... once you get the hang of that, try proper SPP until you get that down aswell.

EDIT: Forget what I said about spring returns lol... IC padlocks don't have those, so the reason you're not getting it is more than likely because you're getting locked up in false.

[the lockpickkid]

Solomon, this isn't an IC core lock, unless I read what you said wrong. This lock will rake open fairly easy, but you just have to know what your doing, and that takes practice. You learn more by skipping the raking and just SPP'ing everything. This lock does have a spring return, it's very similar to an American Lock, or a Master 930, unless I have my numbers wrong.

[mbpick34]

like everybody else says practice practice try to focus technique like tension wernch pressure and binding order
technique first then comes picking speed, well thats just my opinion though, and also im not an expert lol

[Solomon]

Solomon, this isn't an IC core lock, unless I read what you said wrong.

Err yeah it is lol... but thanks for clearing up the spring return thing, I've had a couple of IC padlocks before which didn't have key return and some which did so I get confused about that sometimes.

[LocksmithArmy]

it's a removeable core lock, not an ic lock... Ic needs a control key 2 remove... Removable core required dissassembly to remove. Also... If it's key retaining it won't have a return spring... If it's not key retaining it may have one... Idk abt that particular company

[Solomon]

Oh yeah... damnit LSA I haven't had much sleep recently, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

[dragonkingx]

@ locksmitharmy and solomon it is key retaining and only snaps back when the shackle is closed. @ everyone thanks for the advice i try to spp but what frustrates me is when i set one pin the other is lost and so it might have something to do with my tension, the pins seem hard to set you can hear the springs when you push on them maybe i should lube the lock?

[LocksmithArmy]

sounds like strong springs pushing on the drivers... this takes just the right ammount of pressure... something between dropping pins and over lifting them... tough and if your not confident maybe let her sit for a bit till you get some more locks under your belt.

[the lockpickkid]

Not to throw you off track, but some of these locks don't have security pins, are you sure that this one does?? Some of the Master Locks in this style don't have them, also you just never know whats in the lock. Instead of thinking about security pins, act like they are not there, give your tension wrench moderate to heavy tension and try to set your pins, see if this works. I have to admit when I pick a lock I seldom know sometimes never know if it has or doesn't have security pins, sometimes I will pick a lock for somebody and can never tell you how many pins that lock even had. I try to always think outside the box when picking, I never dwell on or even think about security pins. This lock may have them, but try all different kinds of tension, as a general rule light tension for security pins, but I know in my own experience that this isn't always true, try all combinations. And then maybe try some other locks and come back to this one.

[dragonkingx]

@ locksmitharmy ill think about it it has been a great learning aid so far better then the master 3 ( that pops way to fast) what kind of locks would you suggest to practice with to build up my skill?

[dragonkingx]

@ the kid yea im sure there are atleast 3 they bind and counter rotate when pushed on the 2 & 3 pins for sure and the 5th that one had me hung up when i had all the others set. you might have an point on the thinking part because i spped it open when i had no idea what i was going maybe im to tense on the matter? i also see people use an rigid tension tool for these locks like this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJtE1e4q ... re=related

[the lockpickkid]

I see alot of new pickers become more concerned with the security pins than I think they need too. You need to know what to do when you come across them but don't overthink them, I don't give them a second thought. However, Yale has some funky pins, and you can't just ignore them, they are harsh at times, you will know they are there and getting around them is tricky, as you progress your skills they may become easier though. Keep practicing and asking the questions, don't give up.

[LocksmithArmy]

@ locksmitharmy ill think about it it has been a great learning aid so far better then the master 3 ( that pops way to fast) what kind of locks would you suggest to practice with to build up my skill?

well... Brinks makes some challanging and fun locks... Schlage will kep you entertained 4 a bit... But if ur wanting 2 learn security pins I'd go with a master 140. It has 1 security pin and it's easy 2 find... That will help you learn how to get over em... Also a 5200 is always a good challenge but I think that will be after you get this sucker open lol