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Upside-down locks.

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lmmjgt

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Post Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:13 am

Upside-down locks.

I've noticed that a lot of deadbolts in my city are upside-down, is this purposedly done to avoid picking or is it just for pure design?
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faygo6

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Post Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:18 am

Re: Upside-down locks.

Upside down is a geographical statement. In North America you'll generally springs up and in Europe you'll down. It's kind of like a saw cutting on a push or a pull depends on which country your in.
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Doogs

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Post Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:47 am

Re: Upside-down locks.

I'm gonna guess you're in Ottawa. Damn frogs do that just to piss the Anglo's off. Seriously though if the locksmith is Euro it would be normal for him to do that and there's a lot of European/Mid-East/African/Asian trained tradesman in the Metro centres so it's no biggy. The pins on top is a North American thing,
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Neilau

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Post Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:27 am

Re: Upside-down locks.

In Australia the springs are generally on the top but to you guys they are probably upside down. :???:

The house I am currently living in was "Owner Built" by a European couple and the front door lock (original) is spring on the bottom.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:45 pm

Re: Upside-down locks.

Some time back I was told or read (can't remember), that a lock with the pins on the bottom
is incorrectly mounted. Obviously this isn't true. Very odd and up-side-down for me, yes...
but a perfectly normal standard in many other parts of the world.

It was also said that a lock oriented this way would, over time, cause the
springs to collapse under the weight of the pins. I find this hard to believe.

I could however see debris more quickly collecting within the pin chambers
opposed to a lock mounted with the pins on top. But again, it must not be too
much of an issue considering the thousands of locks that are installed like this.

In terms of picking: If you haven't prepared yourself, it can be a real bitch
the first time you encounter a lock opposite of what you're accustom to!
Practice going both ways (yeah Gordon, I said it! LOL).

It's very rare in my area to find a deadbolt or doorknob with pins on the bottom...
but padlocks are a different story, no matter where you live. They'll be on all sorts
of things in all sorts of ways & will sometimes leave you in some pretty awkward
and funny contortions. Being bested by a measly little Master was more than
enough to prompt me to change up my picking sessions a bit. lol
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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GWiens2001

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Post Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:01 pm

Re: Upside-down locks.

As I understand it, the locks made to be mounted with the pins in the bottom supposedly have stronger springs to help counter the dirt and debris over the years. Not sure how true it is, as the springs mostly look the same to me.

Think the bitting being on the bottom of the key (euro-style) actually goes back to the time when people still used lever locks and warded locks heavily. The weight of the 'flag' would make it easier to hold the key with the bitting down. When pin tumbler locks came along, the locksmiths were used to mounting with the key bitting facing down, and continued to do so.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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quabillion

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Post Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:29 am

Re: Upside-down locks.

from what i have seen this is caused by the installer not noticing that the bolt assembly is marked "TOP" on one side. if the bolt is installed upside down then the keyholes will be upside down. simple fix is to remove the 2 screws that hold the keyhole(s) or keyhole and thumb turn to the door, then remove the 2 screws that hold the bolt assembly in the door. remove the bolt assembly and turn it over 180 degrees. reinstall the bolt assembly with its screws and then reinstall the keyhole and thumb turn plates. now the lock will be oriented the correct way with the pins above the keyway
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jeffmoss26

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Post Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:05 am

Re: Upside-down locks.

I see mortise cylinders installed upside down on a daily basis...seems like every other chain store has their locks installed wrong!
I was told this is done so the key does not work from the outside, because the cam is in the wrong place.
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GWiens2001

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Post Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:22 pm

Re: Upside-down locks.

jeffmoss26 wrote:I see mortise cylinders installed upside down on a daily basis...seems like every other chain store has their locks installed wrong!
I was told this is done so the key does not work from the outside, because the cam is in the wrong place.


So you have to unlock the door from the inside? Why not just use a dummy plug mortise?

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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fgarci03

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Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:28 pm

Re: Upside-down locks.

Oldfast wrote:Practice going both ways (yeah Gordon, I said it! LOL).

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Just to add my two cents:
I live in Europe, so I practice on both setups. What I've noticed is no difference on the picking itself (it's a matter of getting the hang on the position, but no difference on feedbacks, binding force, and so on).

The one thing I noticed is when you pick with the springs up (American way), you kinda notice when a pin is overset, because it doesn't drop. On Euro style, whether a pin is set or overset, it will stay down, so you have no idea of it's state unless you can feelthe feedback.

I personally, although European, prefer to pick American style, as it's easier for me to rock the pick that way, than the other. But that's just a preference, no difficulty is added on flipping the lock upside down!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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GringoLocksmith

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Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:12 pm

Re: Upside-down locks.

GWiens2001 wrote:So you have to unlock the door from the inside? Why not just use a dummy plug mortise?

Gordon


Never having done this myself, I don't know the actual answer to your question, but I do know the markup on a good commercial cylinder is a lot higher than on a dummy plug. It will always be more profitable to start from the reasonable assumption that the customer wants a working lock, and then to accommodate him or her when you find out that some other setup is preferred.

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