Champion 6 lever (reprise)

[tpark]

I have some of these locks and I would like to disassemble them to attempt to replace the spring. What is the best way to do this? I've disassembled one of the "empire" 6 lever locks, and it looks to me like the posts which go through the top were hammered down then sanded off. One of the really old locks that I got has a dead spring in it, but I'm not going to disassemble this lock - it's marked "patent pending" so it's probably older than the others. Any hints on repairing these locks would be greatly appreciated. I would like to wind a new spring but where do you get stock for brass springs?

The critical part that I'm looking for help on is dealing with the posts holding the front face on. My initial thought is drill down through the posts with a slightly smaller drill. After removing/working on the lock's internals, I would then braze new posts on and shape them so that they fit through the holes in the face. I would then reassemble the locks internals, replace the face and pound down the posts, then carefully sand off the areas where the posts had been flattened. What do you think of this?


Thanks for any help you can provide,

--Ted.

[Papa Gleb]

Ted, I would strongly suggest to accept the broken spring and leave the locks alone. The only way to open them is to drill and then you can solder or install new pins but either way signs of repair will be visiable destroying the appearance and possibly the value of the lock. If you had plans to clean / polish them up after to make the repair sign less visibale then you would remove the patina and again making the lock loss value.

In my experiance, I found that most of the time the spring isnt broken but slid of the hasp. Try sticking in a very thin and wide piece of metal down the hasp where the spring is and push it down to get it back into position. Keep the lock open will be easier to accomplish this. It may not be a fix as the spring can slide right away again but its still better then opening it.

[GWiens2001]

There are springs on every lever as well one for the shackle. And have seen springs that are broken. Have also seen the levers mangled so they won't move correctly, or very dirty with the same effect.

Agree that taking apart the lock will ruin value.

Gordon

[Doogs]

Lauren Barbarian has an excellent thread on here with the "guts exposed" pictures. The Champions have specially designed bolts holding the faceplate. They are basically a piece of brass rod with a precision taper and threads on one end which is ground flush after installation. I'll see if I can dig up his thread.
Found it:
viewtopic.php?f=111&t=3844&hilit=Champion+6+lever



The link isn't to Laurens thread but to Barbarians! My Bad.


Note: Post edited for accuracy and because I neglected to verify my comment before posting

[Doogs]

It would seem I jumped the gun on my earlier post TPark. i scrolled down to Laurens thread and it seems you do have his book.

[Papa Gleb]

lol Doogs you missed his question too

[Doogs]

lol Doogs you missed his question too

I went totally off the reservation on my post Papa. I corrected it give the correct credit to Barbarian and not Lauren for the Champion thread.

What I thought the question was is ' how to remove the faceplate'. Which in Barbarians thread you can see the mount for the post/bolt is in fact threaded so drilling and extracting the post/bolt shouldn't be overly difficult and then repairing replacing the broken spring.
As seen here: (unless I'm mistaken)
download/file.php?id=3987&mode=view

It would then just be a case of machining a piece of brass rod with the correct taper and thread and replacing and carefully grinding/filing flush.

Admittedly you would have a rather obvious repair as the new bolts would lack the patina of the lock body. Would that affect the value in regards to a resprung and working lock opposed to an original but not fully functional lock? I'm not sure! This would also make it much easier to rekey if the lock is missing the key at present.

I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say. My heads a bit full now with too much going on in RL.

[Lauren]

I agree with Papa Gleb, leave the lock intact. Unless other collectors are going to benefit for your efforts in a public sense, why do it? The shackle and tumbler springs are made from some sort of phosphor-bronze alloy, not easily duplicated. However, if you were to find a source of material (which I doubt) the spring could easily be made. Brass is way too soft. If the posts that retain the top case cover are removable (I never tried), then try 3/16" bronze brazing rod (maybe still too small?). This material is harder. I never heard of the springs on the shackle popping off. I have a valuable lock that is springless in the shackle with no broken noise when shaken. I'll have to try Papa's method.

For a minute, I thought my new name was Barbarian.

[tpark]

Thanks for your replies. The consensus appears to be "Just leave it alone". In the Excelsior that I disassembled it doesn't appear as though the lid is held on by screws - I tried to turn the posts, and they appear to be part of the back assembly. On the other locks with broken springs, I tried probing around with some thin spring steel stock, but I think that the spring is broken, not out of place on mine. I will probably try and get the excelsior to work again, but only as an exercise in locksmithing. All the replies you've given me have been helpful to me in my lock restoration (or perhaps non-restoration) process. Thanks again for your help.

[tpark]

Random has kindly sent me a 6 lever padlock that has seen better days, and this one is a candidate for disassembly. There is no springiness in the levers, and it has the appearance of something that has been buried for a long time.

random_champion.jpg

I marked the center of the posts, and drilled open the lock.

about_to_drill.jpg

lock_innards.jpg

The springs were shot - some were there, but snapped off if any pressure was applied to them. The levers were still useful, as I could measure them even though the springs were wrecked.

lock_disassembled.jpg

I attempted to clean the parts as much as I could - some time, plus a combination of parts degreaser, soap and water, and CLR help.

lock_soaking.jpg

An image of the levers.

lock_levers.jpg

As part of a separate project, I was able to get enough parts together to make a cutaway lock. I had purchased an Empire lock off Ebay, and this one had been in a fire, so the springs were shot. The levers from a different Champion lock were used to create this cutaway.

empire_disassembled.jpg

empire_cutaway.jpg

Since the last posting, I've worked on decoding a number of pancake locks. Many of the locks I purchased had dead shackle springs - I wish I'd read the part in Lauren's book about asking sellers to test the spring **before** I bought some of these locks. The majority of the locks I've purchased don't have screws holding them together. I have one (dead shackle spring unfortunately) but I'm not going to take it apart. It should be noted that one of the locks I have springs back when you push down on the shackle, but doesn't spring up when the lock is opened.

For my cutaway, I made a spring out of .040 phosphor bronze spring wire. This is much thinner than the original spring, but it works, and it's what I could get.

[Papa Gleb]

Great work bud. Keep tings coming. I will tell you what works for me, go to your local hardware store and buy made springs, they are made out of a very good metal and are strong, then you can use them to replace the broken springs. Yes I always always make the seller go through my little quiz before buying and even if they pretend they dont know I still make them find out .

Here is a link to a double sided lever Miller I restored: viewtopic.php?f=111&t=10578&p=96941&hilit=miller#p96941

[tpark]

Great work bud. Keep tings coming. I will tell you what works for me, go to your local hardware store and buy made springs, they are made out of a very good metal and are strong, then you can use them to replace the broken springs. Yes I always always make the seller go through my little quiz before buying and even if they pretend they dont know I still make them find out .

Here is a link to a double sided lever Miller I restored: http://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... ler#p96941

Wow - getting those springs right in your restoration is no small feat! You did a great job on that repair. They do have premade springs of all sorts at the hardware store, I'll go check it out.
I've gotten locks where there is some springiness in the shackle, but the spring is really weak and doesn't push the shackle out. I guess there's no guarantee that the lock will work unless you have a key.

[Papa Gleb]

Thanks and of course there are risks with every purchase but as said above there are some ways to protect yourself. Also make sure the seller accepts returns before buying more particularly on the expensive items.