Ocariz Security Cylinder

[fgarci03]

So...

I found on OLX (ebay's little son ) a cylinder for sale which I found interesting. Mainly because of the key. So here it is!


As you can see It's a regular pin tumbler but the key has dimples on both sides. Making a total of 15 pins!

So I had to gut it
First, Sorry for the flashy pics, I only noticed it when I opened them on the computer, but it's understandable:
The key with all pins aligned. The pins on the right and left are the ones that are operated by the dimples.




I found this pretty odd. And the cylinder had no springs nor driver pins for those, just a small "ramp":


Here's the plug BTW:


I found this system pretty strange, had never seen it before. So When I assembled the plug back I understood!
With a key, everything is aligned, as normal:


But... without key, instead of the side pins being pushed inside by the driver pins, like regular pins are, they are pushed outside by the key pins:


So they block the plug unless the key has dimples to let them go inside the plug, allowing it to rotate!
So although it has 15 pins, only 5 of them are active.

I haven't picked it yet, but I believe it's just a matter of picking a regular 5 pin tumbler. And I believe that the dimples on the key are just to confuse you, as it would need just holes, not encoded dimples. I will probably be making holes on those dimples and see if it interferes with anything.


I have also found that the lock has an anti-drill pin, and the 2 first pins on each row are also hardned, you can see that on the previous images:


Have you ever seen something like this?
For the price I think it's a pretty reasonable lock.

[Oldfast]

So I had to gut it...

You know it!

So although it has 15 pins, only 5 of them are active.

I haven't picked it yet, but I believe it's just a matter of picking a regular 5 pin tumbler. And I believe that the dimples on the key are just to confuse you, as it would need just holes, not encoded dimples....

Exactly. The 5 passive sidepins shouldn't interfere with picking, but they would help prevent a bumpkey from working.

Thanks for sharing!

[fgarci03]

So I had to gut it...

You know it!

I was thinking about you when I wrote that part

The 5 passive sidepins shouldn't interfere with picking, but they would help prevent a bumpkey from working.

Not only a bumpkey, this is a keyway I've never seen before. I guess it's pretty difficult to get blanks for it.
But possible.

This can help key control. Even if you get a working blank and cut it (or impression it) to the right bittings, you would need the dimples to allow the side pins to enter the plug.
And it's why I think the dimples have different cuts, and not just holes on the key: to confuse an atacker. I'm not sure, but why would they have encoded dimples there, if they just need the pins to enter the plug? A hole, or at least all the dimples being the same size would do it...


P.S. - You could bump it if you thin enough the dimpled part of the key, so it doesn't interfeer with the side pins. Or am I missing something?

[Oldfast]

Key control - indeed that too... good point.

And as far as bumping it- yeah, you're right...if you modified the bumpkey it certainly could be done.
But it would have the average criminal with a set of 'normal' bumpkeys moving on the the next house.

edit: I don't think you'd want holes through the key as it would possibly leave it stuck in the lock.
As to why the dimple depths vary (even though the sidepins look to be the same length) I'm not sure.

[GWiens2001]

Filipe,

Just cut a slot where the dimples would go. Taper the end of the slot near the tip of the key so the dimples can ride slightly when the key is withdrawn. It would not need much of a taper... The key does not have on the tip for insertion of the key. Then make the '9' cuts. Voila - bump key.

Gordon

[fgarci03]

Yes, I didn't remember he key could get stuck if I make holes in it!

Just cut a slot where the dimples would go. Taper the end of the slot near the tip of the key so the dimples can ride slightly when the key is withdrawn.

I could also just cut through the key where the dimples are and make something like the Sofer lock key Gordon has!
It would of course weaken the key, but would work. Or I could file it and thin the dimpled part. But cutting and tappering would probably be better anyway!

This one doesn't seem to hard to make a bump key from, as the cuts already look that way. Just a bit more of filing and voilá!

Thanks!

[xeo]

Damn that looks fun to pick

[fgarci03]

Does it?


Just messing with you! It's just like picking a regular pin tumbler. Don't even need to beware for the side pins. When you pick it, even if the side pins are being pressed, you feel a slight rotation which means it's poped. Just remove your pick and the plug will rotate.

The only problem I found is that the warding on the top of the keyway makes you need to go with your pick in an S shape all the way to the sheerline. And when you don't set the pin at the first time, the side pin gets on the way of it, making it difficult to reach the pin.

But it's nothing to fancy!


P.S. - What, in fact, looks fun to pick are your Medecos

[rai]

think of those dimple pins the way you think of the warding cuts, not anti pick but actually to prevent similiar random keys from opening it.

or at least thats what I think the engineer making it had in mind.

[fgarci03]

think of those dimple pins the way you think of the warding cuts, not anti pick but actually to prevent similiar random keys from opening it.

or at least thats what I think the engineer making it had in mind.

Indeed Rai!