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Key reading after picking

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edocdab

Newbie

Posts: 3

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:52 pm

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:29 pm

Key reading after picking

Hello everyone,

I figured it should be relatively easy and very quick to read the key after picking. It should be a faster way to get a key than impressioning, assuming picking can be done quicker. As soon as the core is turned a bit, the key pins have nowhere to go so you could just measure them quickly and precisely with the right tool. I experimented a bit but as I never did any key making before I was not able to get it precise enough yet with the messy tool I put together. I did manage to get pretty close.

Anybody here knows about such a thing? I didn't encounter such a thing yet.

Edoc
Last edited by edocdab on Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Werewolf

Familiar Face

Posts: 185

Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:00 am

Location: Belgium

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:20 pm

Re: Key reading after picking

I've been doing that for years.
The "tools" i use are just modified key blanks. They are cut to the same depth (1 key for each depth) in each position and made flat. The tip is also cut straight.
Basically you start with the deepest, this will go all the way to the end of the core. Then the next size, and keep going down in cut depth. Eventually , you will have key that hits one of the pins. Then measure how deep the key goes, and you can figure out the position. That pin is then 1 depth deeper than the key you're using. Keep going down in size until you can no longer pass the first pin.
In the worst case, you'll find the deepest cut and the depth of the first pin. The ones you can't find, you'll have to figure out some other way.
I used to use this method on Peugeot locks, before we had a place to order the parts. Now i only use it on padlocks and bicycle locks.
"Who are you and how did you get in here ?"
"I'm the locksmith , and i'm a locksmith"
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edocdab

Newbie

Posts: 3

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:52 pm

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:40 pm

Re: Key reading after picking

Yeah, like that it's easy and precise to measure but, correct me if I'm wrong, you'd get stuck in case shorter pins are hiding behind longer pins right? As you wouldn't be able to insert the blank past the long pin, once the core is turned, to measure shorter ones in the back. I figured you can make a measuring device that can reach any pin and any height. I'll have to figure out how to upload pics, but basically I made a type of inverse scissors. Like this: http://static.axminster.co.uk/media/cat ... 970_xl.jpg but then measuring on the outside. It's also trivial to add a position scale to it. If built well, it could be used very quickly to measure I expect.

You know any tool/idea comparable to that?
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mastersmith

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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 10:16 pm

Location: Miami Township, Ohio

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:48 pm

Re: Key reading after picking

There is a surreptitious entry tool that Mark Bates used to sell that measured the pins. It was VERY expensive, and brand specific (or keyway at the least). This is a ceas where training is your best bet. Developing a trained eye will allow you to "read" the pins. It is a quite common occurrence with disk tumbler locks. Practicing this skill will reap many benefits. Of course you can only "read" the pins you can see, but those that can be seen will fall to your new powers. Good vision (or visual aid) and practice will yield results. Sometimes old school is the way to go!
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
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MHM

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Location: Napier, New Zealand

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:38 pm

Re: Key reading after picking

There's very little that's new under the sun mate. The tool you've just described has been made by Lishi for years, in all kinds of flavours.

Here's the most common one for my part of the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHPd1qDHX8o
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edocdab

Newbie

Posts: 3

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:52 pm

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:43 am

Re: Key reading after picking

Yeah, I can imagine especially with disc tumbler locks reading works quite well. You'd also be able to see the angles from the pick for the ones in the back. Nothing against practice either. Most things in life need that :)

The tool in the video has a lot of overlap with what I was working on and looks nicely engineered. I wasn't yet convinced that a gauge would be able to pick, given how you need two things sticking out into the keyway and need to twist that. I discarded the idea for the moment and it's interesting to see this solved in the video.

I wanted to use much simpler materials and construction for now, also as I don't have time or equipment to make something as nice as the tool in the video. If I do come up with something that works a bit more reliable than what I have, is still cheap and simple to make, I'll post it here for the community. Maybe someone here can benefit from it.

Thanks for the input people.
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Werewolf

Familiar Face

Posts: 185

Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:00 am

Location: Belgium

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: Key reading after picking

edocdab wrote:Yeah, like that it's easy and precise to measure but, correct me if I'm wrong, you'd get stuck in case shorter pins are hiding behind longer pins right? As you wouldn't be able to insert the blank past the long pin, once the core is turned, to measure shorter ones in the back.
You know any tool/idea comparable to that?


Yes, that is the problem. I solved this in some locks you using an L-shaped wire with the short side length equal to 2 depths. When i put this past the higher pin, i can get an indication of how much the difference is.
But I've only ever done that for Peugeot locks. These have a nearly straight keyway , so you have more than enough room to maneuver.
"Who are you and how did you get in here ?"
"I'm the locksmith , and i'm a locksmith"
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safecracker33

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Posts: 63

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:15 pm

Post Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:09 am

Re: Key reading after picking

The tool i am thinking about was made by john falle / safe ventures and used a shim and prepared blank to measure the bottom pin lengths. They also did a very interesting perforated shim device that could shim the pins from inside the keyway one at a time so they could be decoded.

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