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S&G 6730 experience

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Alexander Mundy

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Post Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:38 am

S&G 6730 experience

A few ramblings: My first open with the S&G 6730 took me an hour and a half and was done by graphing. Had someone else set the combo 4 more times and got it down to about an hour. Really intrigued about free spinning watching oldfast YT videos I had the combo set by someone else again and gave it a shot. 30 minutes later cha-ching open. A much greater rush of accomplishment feeling than graphing. I only noted the right contact while spinning and kept mental note. AWL was a bust but AWR gave up 2 good indications which turned out to be W2 & W3. Alternating parking W1, W2, & W3 at those 2 numbera gave a big indication when I got them correct, no high or low test. Then just a matter of parking them and running W1. The new 6730 I have is very finicky and will only give +- 1 number for a 3 number wide gate signature. Don't know if that is the norm or not. Fortunately I was going 2 at a time because that is what I saw Oldfast doing. Also it indicates W2 stronger than W3 and W1 only after W3 & W2 are set which I found interesting. Going to try free spinning again as soon as I have time, think I'm hooked.
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Alexander Mundy

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Post Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:48 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

Second open took 40 minutes. Ran AWR and AWL and didn't get a firm indication. Parked W1 & W2 R50 and run W3 left. Got a good indication at 68. Ran W1 & W2 right parking W3 at 68. Got a faint indication at 66 and a better one at 38. Ran W1 left with W2 R38 and W3 L68. No open but 99 gave indication. Tried 99-(36 to 40)-(66 to 70). No open so wasted some time there. Then I remembered that faint indication at 66 when I was running W2 right. 98-66-68 for the win. Wife said she set it at 99-66-69. Note that when running W1 or trying a combo that I have been giving the dial the back and forth quick jiggle through the contact area to seat the fence in the gates if a gate was on the verge of being correct. I noticed when running the wheels that the slight out of round readings were different from my previous spin. I would assume this is due to the wheel pack being loosened while the change key was turned and slightly offset when turned back. So I take back that W2 indicates stronger than W3, guess it depends on the wheel offsets after the change key has been used.
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Alexander Mundy

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Post Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:01 pm

Re: S&G 6730 experience

Been working on my hot rod this weekend. It's an over decade long project that is getting closer. It took a back seat when I had to open my own business because I usually have to work weekends at my desk.

I did free spin my 6730 a couple of times again, and learned something every time. Different combos give different wheel order indication and I'm fairly certain that every time the combo is reset the wheels seat a little differently causing subtle variances in highs & lows around the dial. Seems this particular lock gives W2 before W3 most of the time which makes for long manipulation. The Big Red gives W3 and W2 indications with all wheels left or right but rarely both with my 6730 and sometimes the 6730 gives nothing up with AWL or AWR and sometimes just AWL or AWR. Theoretically I wouldn't think AWL vs AWR would give indication one direction but not the other so kinda stumped as to why. Doing a quick 0, 20, 40, 60, 80 AWL or AWR then parking 2 wheels on the low spot while running 1 wheel seems to be the most reliable. Will be interesting when the 2nd 6700 and "manipulation proof" S&G I won on fleebay arrives to compare the 6700's.

Getting better at reading the dial marks and only resorting to the vernier if I need to investigate further. Watching the trend and not resolving actual contact numbers until I amplify an area seems to be the ticket.

A long manipulation (about an hour and 1/2) had me spinning way around ?-92-96 running W1 left without results. Started AWR hoping to pick up W2 since this lock likes to give up W2 first and I don't have to interpolate W2 number L to R. Nothing more than the gradual up down around the dial. Parked W1 and W2 at 20 (low area) and ran W3 left from 20. Way around the dial in the area of 95 got an indication. W3 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 GAVE ME 96 as most likely number so ?-?-L96. Ran W1 & W2 right while parking W3 at 96. Got best indication at 92 but not a ringer. Ran W1 left with W2 R92 & W3 L96. No open and no typical gate signature showed. Ran W2 right with W1 R20 (low area) and W3 L96. Got a weak but promising looking indication at 66. Ran W2 left 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 with W1 R20 W3 L96 and center was 67. Ran W1 L from 0 with W2 R45 W3 L96 and at W1 L45 got the open. 45-67-96 Not sure what was up with 92 but it led me on a goose chase.

Learned I should investigate further when the indication is weak and not a typical gate signature. Also learned I have a long way to go to optimize manipulation.
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Alexander Mundy

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Post Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:07 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

Yea, a quick open. (For me)
AWL 0, 20, 40, 60, 80. Within 0.1 of each other with 20 & 40 being lowest (13.4).
Parked W1 & W2 @ L30 and ran W3 left from 30.
Got a good indication centered at L58 (13.2).
So ?-?-L58.
Ran W1 & W2 Right with W3 @ L58.
Got a good indication centered at R50 (13.0)
W1 L45, W2 R50, W3 L58 13.2
W1 L51.5, W2 R45, W3 L58 13.0
So L51.5-?-L58
Ran W2 right from 0 with W1 L51.5 W3 L58
Open at L51.5- R26- L58
Didn't time it but 10 to 15 minutes.
Wife said she set it to L51-R26-L58.
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sah1376

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Post Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:30 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

That's some fast spinning! :)
"A short pencil is better than a long memory."
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femurat

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Post Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:03 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

Alexander Mundy wrote:Also learned I have a long way to go to optimize manipulation.


Looks like you're getting there very quickly!

Cheers :)
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Alexander Mundy

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Post Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:27 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

Luck of where I started from, luck of starting W1 at W3 58 and the gate being so close the direction I went, and luck of arbitrarily starting from 0 in the final run to 26.

What I am surprised about was the AWL every 20 giving such consistent readings and W3 indicating a nice gate signature with all wheels. Not having the combo changed until I run each wheel to see if they are individually consistent or if the consistency was due to all 3 wheels, or just luck of the draw only measuring at those numbers. Then change it and change it back to see if there is a difference caused by the change procedure, or if it's the combo.
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Alexander Mundy

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Post Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:03 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

Got a second 6700, this one used and older. It looked like it hadn't been used in a long time. I took it apart and cleaned it and reassembled. The wheel pack is very loose. It has the little spacers that do not turn between the wheels and a very thin plastic shim at the bottom below wheel 1. A shim without the tabs that keep it from turning was between the spiralock and wheel 3. I ordered some 5/8 .004 stainless shims to take up most of the slack since I couldn't find the S&G spacers for sale. The dial and ring are aluminum or a zinc alloy of some kind and no bushing, just metal to metal. It appears it was made for that and not a bushing or thrust washer? I have tried Houdini and 20K silicone diff oil there and on the lever where it rides in the lock body. Either just doesn't feel as good as my newer one with the plastic bushing in the ring. The 20K diff oil makes the dial feel better as far as slop goes but the Houdini has less drag. I'm thinking I might machine the ring hole and 3D print a bushing with thrust face.

My question to those with more knowledge of these locks is did the older ones just not feel as "nice" as the newer ones?
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femurat

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Post Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:05 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

Alexander Mundy wrote:My question to those with more knowledge of these locks is did the older ones just not feel as "nice" as the newer ones?


Yes, like many other things, new feels better! Old and worn is much more difficult...

Cheers :)
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:38 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

The old dials are just zamak to zamak. It is not unusual to get a dial filled with hardened grease.

The plastic shim is not correct. There should be a thin bronze washer, which can be bent or straightened to adjust the torque. Straight solid washers are not that good to adjust the torque.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Alexander Mundy

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Post Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:42 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

So the bronze washer goes between the dial and the ring?
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MartinHewitt

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Post Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:26 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

There is the S&G mechanical safe locks guide: https://sargentandgreenleaf.com/knowled ... ock-guide/
On page 25 is a drawing of the assembly order. At the bottom is an isolation washer and the torque adjuster. In the pre torque adjuster locks is there just a big and thin washer. This is on page 9 shown.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Alexander Mundy

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Post Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:43 am

Re: S&G 6730 experience

Yea, mine doesn't have the torque adjuster or the 3 pads for it on the case. Appears someone lost the bronze washer in the past. I have yet to find a diagram of the pre torque adjuster lock.

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