No keys. need ideas to open

[ckc123]

OK..

an organization that I'm involved with bought this cash box many years ago. the best intentions (removing the keys for safe keeping), didn't lead to good results after a few years of moving offices etc.

The end result is a new lock box, with no keys. While I can call Sentry Safe to get a replacement set, the cost is prohibitive ($15 for key, $50 for notarized letter of ownership). it's not worth the cost to get replacement keys..

soo... that leaves it as a challenge for me

Model: SentrySafe UC-039K


after looking at a manufactures image


I have a few ideas.

1) Pick it (outside my current ability I think based on the 2 locks.. correct me is I'm wrong)
2) attack the hinge.. (drill, punch, or cut pin at joins)
3) impact attack (hammer strike to see if angled bolt will retract far enough to release the door. not for damage effect)
4) Drill from rear (and "shim" lock open from behind)
5) use mounting holes on the bottom
6) Use a similar attempts for vehicles.. bent U shaped coat hanger that can be inserted, turned and inserted between bolt and catch.

Any other suggestions??



Once I get it open, I can make a set of keys for it.. I just need to get it open.

[Josephus]

I may be wrong, but it looks like it has lever locks. I'm sure someone will chime in with plenty of information regarding that. From a bit of reading it seems like it can be done to lower end ones like this in a similar fashion to more common locks, just requires more force, watching for false gates, and proper tensioner positioning. I have one lying around somewhere that I dissected. You can get old ones that used to be common on houses at antique shops and junk dealers for little more than the price of a sandwich.

It looks spring loaded, so I would try shimming first. A wide piece of springy steel, around .005 feeler gauge may do the trick of doing that bend and retracting the bolt. It hurts pushing those things, and can take more force than it seems, but can work wonders.

The mounting holes seems like a good attack vector, but it will probably need something stiffer and thinner than a coat hanger. A long piece of windshield wiper insert with a bend in it, possibly rotated into place, may work.

Ask around and see if you have an unknown connection to a notary. It is easy to become one and is really convenient from time to time. Many people go through the process just so they can finish up proper business contracts without having to schedule and pay for the service repeatedly.

[MacGyver101]

From the shape of the latch, I'm guessing that it's spring-loaded (rather than dead-locking). If that's the case, then if you have some thin, stiff wire that can be bent into a curve, you can likely just shim the latch and open it -- either by sliding the wire into the gap at the top of the door (can't see if there's a lip there), or by bending more of a "J" shape and going in through the deposit slot at the top.

[ckc123]

I'll post some picks when I get done.. (going to make a bit of a guide for it later )

1) it's not spring loaded
2) it has a relocking device
3) you can disable the relocking device via the bottom hole, and a coat hanger
4) the bolt is NOT string loaded.
6) it's a leaver lock with 7 levers in the one, and 6 on the other.
7) you can see 3 phillips screws through the bottom mounting hole..

Quickest way to open.. Drill a hole in the back.. did just that and popped off the lock from the inside by taking out the 3 screws..

I have the lock open now, and just decoding to make some adhoc keys now..

one of the levers is changeable (which I changed all to the same height, until I make the other key)

it's an interesting lock.. I would not have been able to pick it without seeing it in action.. maybe later I will give it a try.. the springs are pretty hefty and require a lot of force to lift each one..

[faygo6]

The double key makes me think it the lock may work like a safety deposit lock with a renter key and a guard key. I could be wrong but I would suggest for picking attack the top lock first and use it to tension the lower lock. Look into impressioning flat keys or smoking a key as I was taught. It takes some time to get the hang of but it would produce two working keys.

[Don]

The double key makes me think it the lock may work like a safety deposit lock with a renter key and a guard key. I could be wrong but I would suggest for picking attack the top lock first and use it to tension the lower lock. Look into impressioning flat keys or smoking a key as I was taught. It takes some time to get the hang of but it would produce two working keys.

That would be my guess too . The guard key ( the farthest from the bolt) should be 1 of several keys depending on manufacturer.
Perhaps you can post a pic of the lock manufacturers info ( on the part facing the inside of the safe)and someone here can tell you what the guard key is.
This type of lock is fairly easy to open using destructive methods.. nose puller and homemade lever defeating tools.

[chieflittlehorse]

Drill the locks out or impression.

[magician59]

Send it to me. I'll make the keys for you and send it back. (Only if it is practical: I live in Texas, near Houston)

[ckc123]

Drill the locks out or impression.

question.. I understand the process of impressioning pin tumber locks, but how do you do it with a lever lock that always has downward pressure on the key regardless of it being at the right height for the bar ??

[magician59]

Lever locks are actually easier to impression, because the marks are generally consistent. The marks left on a flat key blank by a lever appear on the leading edge of the blank. In most cases, it'll be the right edge, since most lever locks turn to the right to open. The leading edge is the point of contact between the key and the tumblers.

DO NOT FILE ANY KNIFE-EDGES ON THE BLANK! Only dress the blank, by polishing the top of the blade, maintaining the right-angle edge.

As you turn the key, it will be stopped by the fence (or stump) of the bolt; being stopped by the tumbler edges, of the tumblers whose gates are not aligned with the fence. If you turn the key blank hard against this, the unset tumblers will leave a very distinguishable nick on the edge (corner) of the blank that contacts them. File only where you see the nicks.

NOTE* Safe deposit locks require more precision than other types of locks. The type of file to use is referred to as a "WARDING" file. Make sure you file STRAIGHT DOWN, AND PERPENDICULAR TO THE KEY BLANK. Also, you woult want to use a file that is only as thick as the tumblers, as there is little margin between cuts.

The guard key will give you fits, because the key will usually turn all the way to its stop (if it even has one) and will give you very little "information" as you impression. It may be best to order the guard keys from the manufacturer, or visit your local lockie to see if he can make you a set.

(My offer still stands, if you don't ike any of your other options.)

[ckc123]

So.. after getting back to this.. here is what I did..

Using the mounting holes on the bottom of the safe.. you can see this..



so I decided to do this..



Disabled the relocker with a coat hanger.



and removed the screws..

Lock popped off and the door opened.. now to see what it's like inside.



after measuring the levers and trying to cut a key by hand, I had a heck of a time since removing the front plate lets the 2 keyways move all over the place.. (moving them by hand back to thier "regular" positions tended to pop the springs out for each lever... ugh.. after 20 mins I gave up and decided to do this..

(Notice the extra hole in the case which shows the gate lining up with the levers



I also reset the moveable wafers to set the one key to the same height for all cuts (you will notice in the pick of the key I cut)

After being able to see exaclty what the affects of each cut was, I made a simple key using a brass door latch.



later I will make the other key more complex, but it's workable right now...

[faygo6]

Nice Work!

[ckc123]

Lever locks are actually easier to impression, because the marks are generally consistent. The marks left on a flat key blank by a lever appear on the leading edge of the blank. In most cases, it'll be the right edge, since most lever locks turn to the right to open. The leading edge is the point of contact between the key and the tumblers.

When I was making the key I could see the marks on the leading edge, however.. due to the strength of the springs, I found that every position had a mark, regardless of if it was at the aligned position or not.. (brass, home made key was too soft I'm guessing)..

once I decided to open the lock and set all the "customer" keys wafers to the same height, I could make a simple customer key.. I then worked on the guard key and got the cut. Now that I have a working guard key, I can go back to seeing how it will impression with the customer key side.

[magician59]

Nice work! Have fun with it.