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LC manipulation: S&G 6700

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Libertyclicks

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Post Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:46 pm

LC manipulation: S&G 6700

I just got an S&G 6700 group 2 lock to practice on. I took some snaps of the mounting process. I plan to make some wooden stands for my locks this summer.
S&G 6700

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There she is. The dial is AMSEC and had a full spindle, so I sawed it down to size after measuring and then rounded the spindle with my dremel.
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Mounted and ready for action.
I have no idea what combo this one is, so I tried the standard ones I know and it wasn't any of those so I'm good to get crackin'.
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A worrying first graph, no tasty grand canyons like I would like. But there are 3 low areas that are worthy of amplification. The first low and third low look the right size to be a gate, so I amped them first, and I think I tricked myself into seeing many gates hahaha. Bad start!
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Well on to amp the second low section, the widest of all. And wouldn't you know it... I caught half the gate there, if I had started charting at 46 instead of 42 I would have missed it entirely. I then repositioned the wheel for more readings, TADA! I have a gate.
Now my literature told me to read a gate both spinning left AND spinning right, and then split the difference between the two to actually centre on the gate which has been an issue for me since the start. So I do that and I get interesting results. The LCP reads better if I am turning Right, and the RCP reads better if I am turning left. What's going on here? Well I must have parked a different wheel close to it's gate and I am hitting a different wheel... So I move the other wheels to a different spot and take readings again... same thing. What the.... Lock you are strange.
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Ok I think I've got that gate pegged L42 and R45. Now normally I'd go after w2 but I hate running wheel 1 around, so I decided to try going after w1 next. Got lucky, didn't take long for a plummet to show itself. Not very wide though... I amplify it 1 increment at a time and I do Left and Right rotation. Seems like it's holding steady and it is deep so surely it's a gate as well. I make a plan to open the lock using my two known gates. On my next chart I list some numbers which I think will allow for the fence width and hopefully get the gates inline.
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I only do the first try of w2 all around FULLY EXPECTING the lock to open but it didn't. I wondered if my gates were correct and thought about looking in the lock. Not yet, not yet, you lazy jerk. I decide to just check my gates, so I try w3 again and I still see the gate there, I do w1 again and still see the gate. So all should be well. I move on with slightly different w1 and w3 numbers, but this time I psych myself out by stopping once in a while to measure the contacts as I go around w2. Well of course I find a spot where the readings are getting worse and I stop what I'm doing and decide I've screwed something up and I'm not using the correct position for w3.
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I decide to put w2 in the slot with w1 and try w3 again and see if maybe I was tricking myself the whole time.
Other than a little rotational mishap, everything was smooth and the same gate popped out again but at slightly a higher number than originally. Ok try w3 at 45 and w1 @ 83.5. This time I started w2 @ 80 and did the 10's (70 60 50 40 30 20 10 00 90 80) no joy, try the 5's, no joy. Damn it. Try the 2.5's...

Open: 83.5 - 17.5 - 45

Now right on page 2 when I did Right rotation of wheel 3 the centre of the gate was clearly at 45. But when I did left rotation it changed. Honestly I'm not sure what I was doing wrong here. Even if I had continued on page 3 trying different w1 and w3 numbers it still wouldn't have opened the lock, I just tried w3 @ 42, 43, 44, and it wouldn't have worked. Not even 44? That's cruel.
Other note, on page 1 I amplified an area that showed the gate on wheel 1 even though I was only working wheel 3 around, which is interesting. I think w3 had a low area there and I was seeing wheel 1. But the other spots I amped and saw gates were nothing at all.

Well there it is, my first try at my 6700. I have a video of me finishing it up but I'm kinda frustrated right now, so I'll worry about that later.
Questions, Comments, Jokes are welcome.
LibertyClicks
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Squelchtone

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Post Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: LC manipulation: S&G 6700

very well done and documented! So I have 2 questions, 1st the combination. most people would not choose .5 as part of the combination, what's the process to see if it is really 83 or 84, and if it is 17 or 18 - 45 ? do you just dial 83-17.5-45 then 84-17.5-45 and then once that is figured out dial __ - 17 - 45 and then __ - 18 - 45 ?

Second, what is your source of the plastic lock stands? I believe I can buy them for $20 a piece, but wasn't sure if there are multiple suppliers out there.

Thanks!
Squelchtone
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Libertyclicks

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Post Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:57 pm

Re: LC manipulation: S&G 6700

Squelchtone wrote:very well done and documented!

Well thank you my good man. I'm learning more by hashing it out afterwards than I am by doing it, that's for sure.
Squelchtone wrote: 1st the combination. most people would not choose .5 as part of the combination, what's the process to see if it is really 83 or 84, and if it is 17 or 18 - 45 ? do you just dial 83-17.5-45 then 84-17.5-45 and then once that is figured out dial __ - 17 - 45 and then __ - 18 - 45 ?

Good question. Most people in their right mind wouldn't use a .5 in the combo though they surely could.
I don't care what the actual combo is when I am doing this, I just have to get it "close enough" that the lock opens. After that, if it was for a client we'll say, then I'd pop the back off the door, pop the back off the lock, and dial in the gates, looking at the front of the lock each time I line one up and write down the nearest whole number.

In reality, this lock would probably open if I dialed 84 - 18.5 - 46 or 83 - 16.5 - 44, so if the client just wanted to recover his combo, I would just round everything up or down a number, test it a couple times to make sure it works, then give him the combo. I guess I'm trying to say, it really doesn't matter if you say it's 83 - 17 - 45 or 84 - 18 - 45. I just put down what I was dialing to get it open.

Squelchtone wrote:Second, what is your source of the plastic lock stands? I believe I can buy them for $20 a piece, but wasn't sure if there are multiple suppliers out there.
Squelchtone

Unfortunately I don't have a source. I got that one stand with my first practice lock when I bought it of a security guy in my city. I want to make my own out of wood. The plastic one is not as heavy as I would like. It works fine mostly, but tends to run away from me when I dial too fast.
If I could get stands for $20 a piece I probably would.

Cheers Squelch! You doing any rolling yet?
-LC
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:29 am

Re: LC manipulation: S&G 6700

Nicely done indeed! You certainly had your work cut out for ya on this one. lol
It's always nice to get a leed to follow in the first graph... but SEVERAL leeds?!

Do you still have the same combo in it? I'm curious (for myself aswell)... if you were to run AWL or AWR, would it show
anything more definitive? Not saying to run all the way around, just touch on the several indications. Sometimes it will
help you decipher those multiple indications. It's worth exploring briefly anyway -sometimes it helps, sometimes not.

Libertyclicks wrote:...Now normally I'd go after w2 but I hate running wheel 1 around...
LOL... not the first time I've heard you say that. I say this enthusiastically: But you MUST get over that! lol
All too often, that's exactly what the lock will request of you. Maybe do some spinnin' when you're not
manipulating. Choose a couple #s to place wheels 2&3 on each time while runnin' w1 around. Just like
with pickin', it's all about repetition. Grind it out until it's not even fun anymore, then reap the rewards!
Eventually you'll be surprised to find how quickly you can approach a # and stop on it with accuracy.
Same goes for contact points... you'll approach them fast, but still have that light touch you want.


Libertyclicks wrote:....Ok try w3 at 45 and w1 @ 83.5. This time I started w2 @ 80....
When I'm running my final wheel, I'll sometimes just start it from wherever is easiest for me to run it around....
but often times I'll try to strategically choose my starting point for the rotation in hopes that I'll hit the gate
sooner rather than later. As you know, many combos are a hi-low-hi or low-hi-low configurations. So in your
case, having found wheels 1&3 to be high numbers, I might have started w2's descent starting from 42 or 40.

As always, thanks so much for sharing! (I know it can take awhile to put into words what you did) I really enjoyed this one.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I can't wait to get a peak at the vid too :)
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Libertyclicks

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Post Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:21 am

Re: LC manipulation: S&G 6700

Oldfast wrote:Nicely done indeed! You certainly had your work cut out for ya on this one. lol
It's always nice to get a leed to follow in the first graph... but SEVERAL leeds?!
Do you still have the same combo in it? I'm curious (for myself aswell)... if you were to run AWL or AWR, would it show
anything more definitive? Not saying to run all the way around, just touch on the several indications. Sometimes it will
help you decipher those multiple indications. It's worth exploring briefly anyway -sometimes it helps, sometimes not.

I was pretty frustrated so I asked for a new combo last night. I think I'll try next attempt with all wheels again and see if it does the same thing. I didn't see anything optimistic in my graphs and I wonder if I tricked myself into "feeling gate like dips" because I was worried I wasn't going to find one or something. And that silly gate barely ended up showing up on my first chart, only given away by that wide low which didn't come back up again.

Oldfast wrote:
Libertyclicks wrote:...Now normally I'd go after w2 but I hate running wheel 1 around...
LOL... not the first time I've heard you say that. I say this enthusiastically: But you MUST get over that! lol
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I can't wait to get a peak at the vid too :)

Yes, I must be flexible, and read the lock the way it want's to be read. I feel a thread along the lines of "A safe lock is like a woman..." coming on, but maybe I better not spearhead that thread in case my girlie decides to creep this forum.
The vid(s) are on dropbox for now.... at least it should be by this point. I don't think I can upload it on the internet in good conscience. God forbid some child actually find something useful when they search "How to crack a safe" on youtube.
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Libertyclicks

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Post Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Re: LC manipulation: S&G 6700

Ok so I just tried this lock again with new combo and it went very well.
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AWL - 2 gates - hi lo tests. conclusive on 1 gate, inconclusive on the other. Guessed other gate on wheel 1. Tada. My best time yet, probably about 45 minutes, but again I wasn't timing anything.
Felt good, going fast helped, and using correct rotation on hi lo tests saved me grief.
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On my Hi Low tests: Dialing two numbers left in a row is a neat trick that felt good when I did it, but not as good as my record time. I admit there was some air guitar after it opened.
-LC
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:56 pm

Re: LC manipulation: S&G 6700

Hell yeah! Clean, precise, and quick. And the tide of rotation has turned your way.
Very exciting. Like watchin' clockwork.... you're gettin' better ALL the time :yep:
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Joe Momma

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Post Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:02 pm

Re: LC manipulation: S&G 6700

Saw this old safe in the El Dorado County DA's office, they said a kid opened it a few years ago...

Also said go ahead and give it a try if you want.

It's just an ornament these dayz ;)

Image
Image
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Libertyclicks

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Post Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:15 pm

Re: LC manipulation: S&G 6700

Looks like fun! I want a couple of these in my house as end tables!
LC

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