GWiens2001's Manipulations

[GWiens2001]

Don't have my sheets from manipulatiions right now... At a McDonald's. Will start with the proper manipulation information later. But first, the issue I had with my latest safe lock that I referenced in LC's thread.

Word of caution to all who want to try manipulation:

After mounting your untried lock, set and try a combination first!!!

Recently acquired my second safe lock, a S&G 6730, with an ILCO dial. This was given to me for free at a shop. A lockie friend tossed it together really quickly when he saw me, and I was thrilled. It was a conglomeration of parts he had on the bench and around the shop, but the wheels were brand new.

I got it home and mounted it on a piece of plywood that was home to my first lock before I built a nice display case for it. I did not want to know the combination, wanted to manipulate it open. This was going to be FUN!

The first sheet showed a possible gate, which I confirmed to be on the third wheel. Then I retested it, and it disappeared! Huh? Two more tests, then it came back. Eh??? Another test, and it was much smaller, another test, and it was gone again. WTF?!? What is this, a Houdini lock?

Four days later, the lock was still unopened. Same issue. In exasperation, I took off the back cover so I could set the lock to a known combination. Lined up the wheels, put the cover back on, and changed the combination. Tried to test the combination, and the lock did not open. Argh! Must have screwed up the process. Took off the back cover again, reset the wheels, put the cover on again, and reset the combination (again). Retested, and the combination did not open the lock! One more time again, being SURE that I entered the combination at the change position. Again, it did not open.

Ok, time to disassemble. Took the lock apart, and then I found out that the change cam on the second wheel was out of sync with the other two wheels. When two wheels were unlocked from the hubs so they could be changed, the other one was locked, and vice versa.

So now you know to always check that the lock operates properly with a combination BEFORE you manipulate!

Gordon

[Altashot]

This seems like a very odd problem. When a hub is out of sync, you cannot normally change the combination. When the change key is turned, it unlocks two of the hubs and locks the last one making the dial impossible to turn passed the locked wheel. I don't understand how you were able to even change the comb.
To change the comb, all the hubs must be in the same state, locked. Then the change key is turned to unlock all the wheels. Only then can the dial be turned to change the comb. If one wheel is locked and the other two unlocked, how did you manage to turn the dial to change the comb. If one wheel was locked, you would have needed to use o lot of force to overcome the friction between the wheel and it's center hub which would strip the cogs...
Please explain that.

M.

[GWiens2001]

The dial felt firm to turn even before I tried using a change key. With the ILCO dial, and being inexperienced with anything other than the S&G I first started manipulating with, thought it might be an excentricity of the lock. I was quite surprised when I found the cause. Will post some pics of the internals, if you like. The wheels are new (and red).

Gordon

[Altashot]

Those are the new-er red wheels. They are supposed to be anti-slip.
Yes I'd like to see pictures, especially of the wheels, you know where you can see how the cogs locks the wheel with it's center hub. As for the inner workings, S and G 6730 are all the same. It doesn't matter that it has an Ilco dial or S and G or La Gard. As long as the spindle is long enough, has the proper diameter and thread to fit the drive cam and the spline is close to 50.

M.

[GWiens2001]

[Libertyclicks]

Nice lookin' lock there GWiens.
I haven't disassembled my lock, I'm learning the inner workings as I go. Is your lock salvageable then? If properly re assembled?

LC

[Oldfast]

FREE LOCK!!!! Nice

....This seems like a very odd problem....

I agree. If even one of the wheels hasn't been disengaged, you shouldn't be able to turn the dial.
I'm racking my brain as to what happened... but I dunno. Did you work the combination while
viewing it from the back? Align the gates, taking a look at what number each one lands on.
Maybe you'll find one's slightly different than what you had set it too? Trouble shoot a bit.

Do you have it running properly now? Can't wait to see some graphs

[GWiens2001]

it seemed the parts were not in the correct order. Watched the dials carefully with the back cover off. Each time the nose of the lever went into the drop in area allowing the fence to rest on the wheels for a very short time, the second wheel stopped turning, although the first and third kept turning. That confused the heck out of me, because without the second wheel turning to drive it, how was the first wheel turning?

When I disassembled the lock and pulled out the wheel pack, had to go to the bathroom for a minute after pulling out the pack in one piece (flipped the lock ov and let the pack slide into my hand), and when I got back, my son was handling and inspecting the individual wheels. But I looked at the wheels, and could see no differences, except that one wheel had no fly on the bottom. Figured this had to be the first wheel, since it had nothing to drive. Tried to operate the wheels by holding the hub and turning the wheel in my hand. Two would not turn, and one spun freely.

That confused me, so I grabbed my change key from the other room, and turned it 90*. Suddenly it held the hub and I could not turn it by hand. Thought I had it figured out, but to be sure, turned it 90* again, and the hub turned freely in the wheel. I assumed that was how the combinations were changed. Turned it again to lock the hub and reassembled the lock.

It was no longer much harder to turn than normal, and did not have the almost gravally feeling when the dial was turned. In short, the lock now performs flawlessly.

The question that still persists in my mind that maybe someone here can answer is how on earth the first wheel could still turning for the short duration when the fence rested on/stopped the second wheel while the lever nose was in the drop in pf the drive cam? Of course, that symptom is now gone.

Gordon

[Oldfast]

Well, it's in working order... guess that's the main thing. As to your lingering question:

How in the world could w1 be moving without w2 driving it?! *scratches his head* lol

Maybe Altashot will have a guess.