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Posted: **Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:47 pm**

So i saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHD__g4pS_c by oldfast on manipulating these locks but i tried this and i can't find the locations at all. I know the combination of the lock and the numbers don't match up. I also have two others that i don't know the combo for and can't open. The stop points don't match up. I find the stop point but it's just not the right ones. Can someone describe the procedure more in depth for me?

Posted: **Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:50 pm**

Manipulating a Master brand combination lock:

Step 1: Insert shim around shackle

Step 2: Twist shim against pawl to open

Posted: **Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:42 pm**

Hey! My VERY FIRST EVER youtube vid

Haven't seen it in awhile.
Hell, I'm almost talking in it as if I know something... what a dork. lol

For some time now I've been meaning to re-do the write-up, and maybe the vid too.
In fact there's a rough outline of it I've been tweeking thats saved here in my drafts.
There's been some additional findings since then, not to mention, I feel like it can be
explained much quicker and in a more simplistic manner.

The technique is sound. I now probably have a total of 30+ 1500's.. it works consistantly.
I've purchased four in the last couple months... 2 from Walmart, 2 from Meijers.
I unpackaged two of them and popped them no problem. The other 2 are still
in their packages awaiting their time to shine in a new video (maybe) lol.

HOWEVER, I've found there's a plethora of different Masters... specifically in regards
to age. I've found my technique is not effective on all of them. The older ones do not
seem to respond to it. Nor do the ones that are keyed in the back (at least the 14 that
I have). Yes they are all masterlock 1500's... and yes, they all look identical. But I do
believe there are some slight mechanical variations among them. As to WHAT exactly
that might be... I've not taken the time to find out yet.

I guess what I'm getting at is... I can only vouche for the consistancy of the technique if you're
working with a more 'modern day' 1500. If you go to the store today and purchase one, it should
work like a charm. As to why it's not applicable with the 'older versions'.... I suppose it will take
some further research. Maybe someone will pick up where I left off!?

Do you know how old or where yours came from?

And Mike's right, they're ALL shimable. Even the ones they came out with that say "shimproof"
They modified the shape of the pawl... but they're just as easy. Rather than sliding the shim
around from the side... place it directly over the pawl and apply pressure to it while pulling
the shackle in and out. But what fun is that!? lol

Posted: **Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:00 pm**

MBI wrote:Manipulating a Master brand combination lock:

Step 1: Insert shim around shackle

Step 2: Twist shim against pawl to open

Except for the anti-shim ones. Then you wrap shim with slight outward bend on the end around shackle, lower into place to open.

Gordon

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:12 am**

yeah, my locks are the older ones, i haven't bought any new ones lately. The only one that might be newer is one i got from the foley belsaw course but i think they gave me an older one. I'll see if i can get a newer one to try it on!

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:41 am**

The history of mankind is fraught with attempts to establish an algorithm for opening Master combination locks, using some kind of master formula. Some of the old locks (from, say, 40 years ago) could actually be manipulated in the true sense of the word.

I no longer attempt to manipulate these. They're just like Sentry safe locks. I dial them open. It works on 100% of them, regardless of age or serial number; and whether they are key controlled or not. The gates in the wheels are 3 numbers wide.

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:25 am**

magician59 wrote:....I no longer attempt to manipulate these. They're just like Sentry safe locks. I dial them open. It works on 100% of them, regardless of age or serial number; and whether they are key controlled or not. The gates in the wheels are 3 numbers wide....

Oooooh! You've peaked my interest magician. I'm usually pretty good at refraining from prying & bugging people...lol...
but I just cannot help myself. If/when you have the time, would you care to elaborate a bit (either here or via a pm)?

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:48 am**

Elaborate...On the MasterLock, or the Sentry Safes?

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:49 am**

what does dialing them open mean?

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:09 am**

Daggers wrote:what does dialing them open mean?

If I know the combination, I'll dial the known combination to open the lock. "Dialing them open" means that I apply a system of methodically advanciing through "all" the possible combinations to discover the opening combination.
This necessarily includes eliminating as many possibilities as I can, to make the process more efficient.
When applied to the Master padlocks (and locker locks, and other similar brands of locks), the process is shortened by the fact that the gates in the wheels are 3 numbers wide. This knowledge eliminates 60% of the possible combinations.
It involves a learning curve; But I average 5 to 10 minutes per lock, now, without doing any manipulations at all.

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:24 am**

magician59 wrote:Elaborate...On the MasterLock, or the Sentry Safes?

.... on the MasterLocks please

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:26 pm**

So basically instead of trying 1/1/1, 1/1/2, 1/1/3 you can just do 1/1/1, 1/1/3, 1/1/6?

Also, 3 numbers wide?! Every new thing I hear about Masterlock makes me think less of them...

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:07 pm**

Oldfast wrote:
magician59 wrote:Elaborate...On the MasterLock, or the Sentry Safes?

.... on the MasterLocks please

yes, that would be cool to learn!

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:33 pm**

Daggers wrote:
Oldfast wrote:
magician59 wrote:Elaborate...On the MasterLock, or the Sentry Safes?

.... on the MasterLocks please

yes, that would be cool to learn!

Indeed it would! Not to mention if would be FAR more reliable than my (or ANY) other method out there.
It's always nice to have something to fall back on if, for whatever reason, a quicker method yields nothing.

magician59 wrote:
Daggers wrote:what does dialing them open mean?

If I know the combination, I'll dial the known combination to open the lock. "Dialing them open" means that I apply a system of methodically advanciing through "all" the possible combinations to discover the opening combination.
This necessarily includes eliminating as many possibilities as I can, to make the process more efficient.
When applied to the Master padlocks (and locker locks, and other similar brands of locks), the process is shortened by the fact that the gates in the wheels are 3 numbers wide. This knowledge eliminates 60% of the possible combinations.
It involves a learning curve; But I average 5 to 10 minutes per lock, now, without doing any manipulations at all.

Just from what you've said here... I'm sure many people could probably figure out the rest.
But I'm sorry. I'll admit I'm just not all too smart when it comes to shit like this. lol
I'm more a 'follower/learner' kinda guy I guess. Not alot of 'think outside the box' mentality.
Or, I suppose you could leave it at that... and make us work a bit for it :???:

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:52 pm**

magician59 wrote:
Daggers wrote:what does dialing them open mean?

If I know the combination, I'll dial the known combination to open the lock. "Dialing them open" means that I apply a system of methodically advanciing through "all" the possible combinations to discover the opening combination.
This necessarily includes eliminating as many possibilities as I can, to make the process more efficient.
When applied to the Master padlocks (and locker locks, and other similar brands of locks), the process is shortened by the fact that the gates in the wheels are 3 numbers wide. This knowledge eliminates 60% of the possible combinations.
It involves a learning curve; But I average 5 to 10 minutes per lock, now, without doing any manipulations at all.

I can kinda guess how i think it works.

Each gate (on a 12 gate lock) would be a number, so 3 wheels with 12 numbers each. So speaking in terms of gates not combination number, dial 1-1-x (first gate as the first number, then 1st gate as second number also with x just being pulling up at each gate to see if the first two is correct.) and then 1-2-x and so forth. That's 1728 combinations (12 x 12 x 12). But we can probably exclude ones with the same gate number consecutively so 1-1-x and 3-3-x or if the first two gates we're testing is 2 and 8, then when pulling up the shackle at the 3 gate, we would just skip over the 8th to save time. This brings it down to 1452 (12 x 11 x 11). I don't know how long it would take to dial all of these or if this method is even right though.

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