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Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:05 pm**

Hey everyone!

I had a call today and asked to come and have a look at a safe that is built into the outside wall of the building my wife works in.
It's an old night deposit safe from when the building used to be a bank. The owners have had the place for quite a few years and would like it opened to see whats in it, not that they expect to find cash in it, but the opening to the night deposit is outside of course and made for an nice rubbish bin for a few years.
They have had locksmiths come in over the years and none of them have been successful getting it opened.
Any extra info i get on the lock would be greatly appreciated.
This is all i have...
Its a Chubb night deposit safe, when i move the handle i can feel that the inner workings seem free and not at all gummed up or frozen, the dial is moves as it should and i can feel the gates moving and rotating. the keyway has seen some use over the years but still looks pretty good. It looks as if the lockies have been using this to try and bypass the combo lock.
One last question i think i already know the answer to, is it openable?

If you need any other information, I'll try to get it. (No they dont have a key, i already asked lol)

Thanks, Mick.

Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:16 pm**

Mick,
If you can feel the gates, you should be able to manipulate it. Now that lever lock is a different beast, we don't have many of those here so I don't know much about them. I assume they have contacted the bank about information. They should have had some pretty accurate records. In the states some larger banks out-source ATM service, so that might be the case also. Good luck.

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:07 am**

Hi mastersmith,

They told me that they have been in contact with the bank, but they can't help them for whatever reason. It was my intention to contact the bank myself and see what i got from them.

The lock itself feels real good, and that little lever lock shows it's unwillingness to open in it's simplicity. if i can find out more about that, like what key blanks they use and stuff i may be in with a good chance.
As for manipulating the combination lock, i dont know that much about it, i could have a play with it and hope for the best.

Thanks for the input buddy...

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:27 am**

I'm thinking the key lock has to turn first so the locking dog of the dial can make contact with the gates of the tumblers. That way at least two authorized persons (one with the combo, and another with the key) would be needed to open. Good security demands accountability.

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:26 pm**

jailersmith has a good point, i don't see--in what i've studied--that the lock would just need to be manipulated, it probably also need to be keyed correctly first. if you can find any manipulation manuals(sieveking's guide to manipulation), that's a great beginning, but picking that lock is a first i suspect.

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:44 pm**

jailersmith wrote:I'm thinking the key lock has to turn first so the locking dog of the dial can make contact with the gates of the tumblers. That way at least two authorized persons (one with the combo, and another with the key) would be needed to open. Good security demands accountability.

Great point, i never thought of that.

Thanks buddy...

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:46 pm**

pin_pusher wrote:jailersmith has a good point, i don't see--in what i've studied--that the lock would just need to be manipulated, it probably also need to be keyed correctly first. if you can find any manipulation manuals(sieveking's guide to manipulation), that's a great beginning, but picking that lock is a first i suspect.

Thanks pin-pusher, I'll look for that book also.....

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:06 pm**

i think its a Chubb Model 2216, made in canada, UL Rated-TL30, so its classified as a Chubb TL30 2216.
weight is 1510lbs, manufactured 1979, serial number 183800, the handle rotation to open, on my specs, are Counter Clockwise.
but the difference between yours and my specs are, the traditional model is a no key lock.
you could check it with the exterior dimensions,
height:32inch
width:28inch
depth:24inch
dimensions of the door should be 21-7/8 X 19inches (but that door looks giant compared to my specs)

if all that checks out, then my specs are saying the locks is a S&G R6730 (i realize it looks nothing like a R6730, but thats what my specs say it comes equipped with)
heres a link with all the currently offered S&G dials and rings, but i cant find yours on here, (mastersmith just suggested to me it might be a atm lock, <which would explain its goofy dial and cheap looking ring>)

http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/MC-dialsNrings.php

let me know what you get.

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:19 pm**

I'm going back soon, so i will let you know what i get for sure.

Thank you sir..

Posted: **Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:36 pm**

Its a 4 wheel lock and the driver is much different than a standard S&G or LaGard. You will not be able to manipulate this open if you have never attempted manipulation before. Call these guys, they can manipulate it open (closest guys I can find).

Auckland Safe & Lock Servicing Ltd
Auckland, -
New Zealand AC
09 Phone
6266910
email
Ak.Safe.Lock.Serv.Ltd@Xtra.co.nz

Posted: **Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:32 pm**

steveslock wrote:Its a 4 wheel lock and the driver is much different than a standard S&G or LaGard. You will not be able to manipulate this open if you have never attempted manipulation before. Call these guys, they can manipulate it open (closest guys I can find).

Auckland Safe & Lock Servicing Ltd
Auckland, -
New Zealand AC
09 Phone
6266910
email
Ak.Safe.Lock.Serv.Ltd@Xtra.co.nz

Thanks mate,
Do you know what key blank they would have used? the lever lock is a lot different to the usual ones of course.
The lever at the rear of the lock is semi circular, hooked. it moves freely, like it's used as a ward as well as for tension purposes maybe?
There doesn't seem to be any more than 4 levers in it including the funny looking rear one, it's very difficult to get in to see around the escutcheon.

Posted: **Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:46 pm**

ahab wrote:i think its a Chubb Model 2216, made in canada, UL Rated-TL30, so its classified as a Chubb TL30 2216.
weight is 1510lbs, manufactured 1979, serial number 183800, the handle rotation to open, on my specs, are Counter Clockwise.
but the difference between yours and my specs are, the traditional model is a no key lock.
you could check it with the exterior dimensions,
height:32inch
width:28inch
depth:24inch
dimensions of the door should be 21-7/8 X 19inches (but that door looks giant compared to my specs)

if all that checks out, then my specs are saying the locks is a S&G R6730 (i realize it looks nothing like a R6730, but thats what my specs say it comes equipped with)
heres a link with all the currently offered S&G dials and rings, but i cant find yours on here, (mastersmith just suggested to me it might be a atm lock, <which would explain its goofy dial and cheap looking ring>)

http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/MC-dialsNrings.php

let me know what you get.

The dimensions are much bigger than the specs are saying, the whole unit is 47" x 47", its a big safe.

I did find these on a locksmith trader website here in Aus, they have them advertised as "Chubb English Patterned Vault locks" they look very similar.

Unfortunately, every time i send these guys an email to purchase something or get more information on an item they block me for a while, LOL.

Thanks for the files BTW, i appreciate it.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:28 am**

The keylock is irrelevant. If the lock is open (ie the dial turns) then it can be ignored. The dial check lock is simply used to lock the dial in position, and then it's not that effective as the whole dial assembly arrangement can be pulled apart whether it is locked or not.

The lock is usually 5 levers and quite finely made. I have some of them somewhere.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:45 am**

Yeah, the lever lock seems very simple indeed, but rather nice to look at all the same.
It would make sense that it is unlocked as i have been told there were keys floating around for a while, but no one has seen them in a while.

Thanks oldlock...

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:02 pm**

oldlock wrote:The keylock is irrelevant. If the lock is open (ie the dial turns) then it can be ignored. The dial check lock is simply used to lock the dial in position, and then it's not that effective as the whole dial assembly arrangement can be pulled apart whether it is locked or not.

The lock is usually 5 levers and quite finely made. I have some of them somewhere.

good to remember, i've gotta follow this thread because i'm working on safes myself, thanks for all the provided info fella's. :cool:

.:: Keypicking :: Anything And Everything For Locksmiths, Hobbyist Lock Pickers, Locksport, Lock Picking, lockpicks, cutaways and Security. Simply The Best Lockpicking Forum Around!

Chubb Night deposit safe

Chubb Night deposit safe

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