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I just bought a URSA safe. After opening the door to see what the guts look like I am sure it is more a fire safe that a burglary safe. This particular safe is about 20 years old and is of better quality than the cheap wall-mart fire safes. All in all worth the 50$ I paid. It has a 4 digit combination and a key. The only form of anti-manipulation I can see is that the drive wheel is bigger than the other 3 wheels making it impossible to feel them move. I have never tried my hand at manipulation but I would like to. Any tips on how to start will be greatly appreciated.

can we get some photos ???

Here's a link for a book by Bob Sieveking. If you can't get it through tht National Locksmith Publication, try the author's website. http://thenationallocksmith.com/index.a ... i,rs-man-1

http://www.sievekingprodco.com

Use the fact that the fourth wheel is bigger to map the wheel and find the true gate. From there, dial 0-0-0-T where T is the true gate #, from there do increments of 5 (5-5-5-T, 10-10-10-T) and tension the handle (or, if it requires the key first, use torque the key lightly) to push the fence into the gates. If the fence drags it means you aren't in a true gate (true gates don't bottom out until everything is set correctly). Eventually you'll find one that doesn't drag, you can figure out what wheel it is on with D-0-0-T, 0-D-0-T, 0-0-D-T, where D is the non-dragging number. Whichever configuration doesn't drag is the correct wheel for D. From there you do the same for the last two numbers or you can just brute force the other numbers, such as D-0-0-T, D-0-5-T, D-0-10-T, etc.

I don't know what the tolerances are on those locks but if you want to be conservative you can increment by 2.5 instead. Considering that it is a direct drive lock it should not have amazing tolerances, certainly not better than 2.5

dg

Thanks Datagram I will give that a try and as for photos I am moving and my stuff is all in boxes but I will try and find my camera to take a few.

All right finally moved in here are a few pics.

Looks just like the LSDA brand safe we sell at the shop, definitely worth the 50 dollars you paid.

When I was in Cincinnati, We sold quite a few safes of that ilk. Korean-made. I had to manipulate one right out out of the box--it came with the wromg combo. They're pretty good at keeping the fire out.

Thanks for the links. Safe manipulation has always intrigued me, but there doesn't seem to be a huge selection of reading material out there (for obvious reasons).

I went to Sieveking's site and called the #. The book on manipulation is 100-200 pages and costs $59. I was wondering if you (or anyone else) have this book or have dealt with this company. If so, is it a worth while read for a beginner? Is the company reputable?

I have the National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation. You can find it fairly easily scanned online in .pdf format. I find some of the material difficult to understand. I would suggest getting hands on training, if it is available to you. I think learning on the job, or being mentored would really beat reading some of the concepts in that book. Good luck to you.

We 'manipulate' that type of container with a pair of channel-locks, a piece of broom handle and a mallet. =)

That would definitely work. Not the strongest built, but as the OP stated, fire safe not burgular safe.

***note to self... Do not take fire safe to Harvey to be manipulated.***

Gordon

Well now =P But in actual fact, I've seen one particular safe opened in this manner hundreds of times, repaired and put back into perfect working order by apprentices at a training institution.
One safe, groups of 14 students rotating through every six months, for 5+ years.
Still going strong!

Cool. Shouldn't do any damage that those channel locks would not repair.

Gordon