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Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-TaylorSafe

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3KidsSafeCrackers

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Post Thu May 30, 2024 10:24 am

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

I tried the park 1 and 2 at 52L and scan W3R with W4 at 69L every time. The results don't tell me much but the low at 30 is lower than any previous low I've found. Nothing before this dipped below 12 1/2 or came quite as close to 6 1/8.
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Cheesehead

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Post Fri May 31, 2024 12:06 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

3KidsSafeCrackers wrote:I tried the park 1 and 2 at 52L and scan W3R with W4 at 69L every time. The results don't tell me much but the low at 30 is lower than any previous low I've found. Nothing before this dipped below 12 1/2 or came quite as close to 6 1/8.


I’d recheck the area around 16. If that dip shows up again, call that the best spot, possibly a gate, for now; if not, park it at 30 and try a different wheel. Just remember you’ll likely have to check that wheel again later.

I’m guessing this is taking quite a long time, but it appears you’re making real progress. This graph has a nice shape, so you seem to still be on there right track.

16 is shaped more like a gate to me, but it’s possible that it’s not and 30 ics truly the best reading. When you’re checking both those areas, if 30 definitely reads better, go with 30.

Usually recheck from 3-5 increments away, and check every increment. Typically here this is called amplifying an area.
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3KidsSafeCrackers

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:53 am

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

It is taking an amazing amount of time. I'm sure I've passed 20 hours now but I'm committed at this point as I feel I'm making progress and the curiosity is still there to find out it is empty, like all them..
I reran the 16 spot like you suggested and it is very sharp. But to me it only looks like one side of a gate, the books my kids and I read had more of a trough shaped gates.
Before you posted I also ran another one using 30 and didn't really produce much.

I think maybe this weekend I'll try W1R50, Scan W2, W3R15, W4L69
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:16 am

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

I am sure you will get this!

My thoughts about this ...
Doing W4 is cheap. A quick look from 8 to 76 could reveal now with a better location on W3 also a better location on W4. You can add a second graph on the sheet of May 27th where it is now better.
That step at 15 on W3 is nice, but the lever sits lower at 30. I am undecided which way to go. In case you do a look at W4 and find a better spot, I would recheck both locations before doing W2.
A little bit left of 15 is a big step. If you are choosing 15 and dial not precisely to 15 you might take that step. So I would rather target 15.5.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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3KidsSafeCrackers

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:36 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

I put wheels 1 2 3 all at their lowest readings I've obtained to date and ran W4 again. The very best is still at 69 and it has some shape to it like a gate. I am making progress although slowly.

Edit: Ran W3 again and 16 on W3 sort of looks like a gate as well. I may have to try running W2 again with W3R16, W4L69.
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3KidsSafeCrackers

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:07 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

I think I'm ready to brute force test wheel 1 but it's a bit of a leap. The signals are so tiny they are hard to differentiate but I think I found indications. I hope you don't mind that I don't want to post the full combination on the web but if this works I'll post closeups of the shapes I found in case it helps others in the future. Your hints helped me, thats for sure. My approach was way off. By the way, I'm into this 23.5 hrs of dial time. The first half was not knowing what I was doing.
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3KidsSafeCrackers

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:04 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

I'm in, finally. It was empty.
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3KidsSafeCrackers

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:20 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

Up above one of the posters told me that I needed to have resolution to 1/32 of a number. That turned out to be true. In my charts my lines are 1/16 apart. You can see in this one the first time I ran through the wheel with others parked there was a spike but in the wrong way. The second time through, using some lower (better) numbers on other wheels it improved but i didn't chart it far enough because i didn't understand what i was seeing. Third time through with one better number it revealed what I thought was a gate, and it was, the only reason i went for the third pass is because i was out of ideas.
I find it odd how the chart goes up just before the gate, then down in the gate then gently back up but this was consistent for the wheels and maybe it is my lack of experience, this is only my third safe and I've never practiced on anything either.
Thanks again for all the help.
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Last edited by 3KidsSafeCrackers on Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:25 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

You opened your first high security safe. That is a great achievement! Congratulations!

PS: Safes with completely unknown content are in most of the cases empty.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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webpirate

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:38 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

Congratulations!!! Nice work
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Cheesehead

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 9:09 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

Excellent work! Glad that worked out for you!!!

Re. 32nd's of an increment: I don't use a graph so often, so I don't necessarily have a concrete number in mind, but my 6500 series probably doesn't require that level of precision, so I'm surprised yours did.

Manipulating a 6500 open is a nice achievement :smile:
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3KidsSafeCrackers

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 9:17 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

My kids want to know if this is a Group 2 safe. Would anybody know or do I need to remove the back of the door to figure out???
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3KidsSafeCrackers

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Post Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:26 pm

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

This is what it looks like inside the door. Door is solid steel 3.5" thick. It has a glass re-locker in it as well.
One last set of questions. Do you think this would be TL-15 rated? It is pretty rugged. Also would it have a fire rating or none?
I might want to keep passports and stuff in it if it would withstand a fire.
Thanks,
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Jun 02, 2024 8:04 am

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

3KidsSafeCrackers wrote:My kids want to know if this is a Group 2 safe. Would anybody know or do I need to remove the back of the door to figure out???

I don't know if this lock had a rating at this time and this is a UL Group 2 lock, but the technology is that of such a lock, so I would call it a group 2 lock.

But the current lock has a UL Group 2 rating: https://mbausa.com/vault-lock-direct-dr ... e-handing/
There is also the change key shown.
Last edited by MartinHewitt on Sun Jun 02, 2024 8:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Jun 02, 2024 8:17 am

Re: Help Identifying Combination Lock on Chubb-Mosler-Taylor

3KidsSafeCrackers wrote:This is what it looks like inside the door. Door is solid steel 3.5" thick. It has a glass re-locker in it as well.
One last set of questions. Do you think this would be TL-15 rated? It is pretty rugged. Also would it have a fire rating or none?
I might want to keep passports and stuff in it if it would withstand a fire.

The door walls are probably not solid steel, but they are solid. The safe that Webpirate opened was attacked by the owner with an angle grinder on the side where concrete and rebar was visible. When the owner gave up he did not penetrate far into the wall, so there can be any kind of other barrier materials.
I think it is much more than a TL-15. My feeling is that it is at least a TL-30x6.
I doubt it has a fire rating. Concrete has some fire protection because it has isolating and cooling properties due to the water content. Modern safes do have special fire seals at the door, which prevent hot gasses to enter the safe, which this one doesn't have. Maybe the gap of this door is so thin, that this doesn't matter. In the end it will probably have some fire protection, but it is unknown how much. That is just like with modern gun safes. :twisted: There are document boxes with fire ratings of 30 and 60 minutes (depending on size) and you have a big safe with lot of space inside. It might be a good idea to use these for additional fire protection.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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