Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:24 am
Fighting a La Gard, an (ongoing) drama in 3 acts
Hi all!
First time poster here, with a hopefully interesting story for all of you, and some questions to ask at the end.
Regarding combination locks I am completely inexperienced, so far i only have played around with cylinder locks and the occasional wafer security lock (Stuve)
Act I
Via my local version of craigslist, I came across an offer i simply couldn't refuse - A Safe without known combination or content, free of charge to whoever manages to pull it out of the basement of the prior owner.
(If anyone is interested in how to move heavy saves without expensive equipment i'm happy to share how we pulled this off, yet i digress
)
As we moved the safe, we found Lagard user manuals for Models 1985, 3330, 3332 and 1947, attached to the Backside.
(Ominous foreshadowing)
This is how i came into the possession of a 130x80x60 cm, 310kg monster, now occupying a significant portion of my workshop.
/..my eyesight isnt the best, so im using some magnification for reading contacts. The magnetic base holding the lens is one for dial test indicators, commonly used in machining.
Unfortunately, someone less patient (maybe the previous owner) tried to pry off the aluminum screen, so that both the dial and handle are having significant amounts of play. To make matters worse, something is ratting INSIDE the dial, i am assuming a broken off screw, that every once in a while lodges itself behind the dial, completely blocking it.
Since the dial is made of aluminum, i luckily managed to keep the screw in position with magnets and hot glue, but this is far from a perfect environment for learning Manipulation.
...not elegant but it does its job
Act II
Establishing the contact points was easy however, they started out as 7.5 and 15.75, and that is where i started graphing.
After several attempts, i realized that we are dealing with those pesky oval wheels here (note the vaguely sinusoidal behavior in the plots, especially on the right contact point ) and identified the minimum points on each, to proceed with starting points that are not masking anything.
These were found to be at w1:36, w2:22, w3:45
Next up, i was pretending it to be 4 wheel and fixing w2, w3, w4 to my minima. on w1, taking 15 digit intervals, i established that there is no significant change. If it were 4 wheel i reason, i should get another oval-like signature.
Having established that its a 3 wheel La Gard, the descent into madness begins.
Act III
Since i don't have any prior knowledge in dialing, I decided to play it safe, and dial in all combinations for graphing via the method provided by the provided instructions. (This should work too, right? ...right??)
(4x counterclockwise to w1, 3x clockwise to w2, 2x counterclockwise to w1, 1x clockwise to contact area, for testing)
In the last Graph something strange happened: Around w1:76 within the contact area i have points with higher friction, and i don't know what to make of it - my guess would be that someone put the Dial in the contact area and really did a number on the safe handle, denting the wheel, but i am speculating (see the question marks for those friction points)
From all of the above, i am convinced that we should see an open at 44-9-31, unfortunately, the lock disagrees.
I am hoping that any of you much more experienced folks has some insights of where to go from here, I'd hate to use an angle grinder on it!
What to make of that friction points?
Did i overlook any obvious gates?
What would you graph next?
...I'll keep you up to date with my progress
First time poster here, with a hopefully interesting story for all of you, and some questions to ask at the end.
Regarding combination locks I am completely inexperienced, so far i only have played around with cylinder locks and the occasional wafer security lock (Stuve)
Act I
Via my local version of craigslist, I came across an offer i simply couldn't refuse - A Safe without known combination or content, free of charge to whoever manages to pull it out of the basement of the prior owner.
(If anyone is interested in how to move heavy saves without expensive equipment i'm happy to share how we pulled this off, yet i digress
)As we moved the safe, we found Lagard user manuals for Models 1985, 3330, 3332 and 1947, attached to the Backside.
(Ominous foreshadowing)
This is how i came into the possession of a 130x80x60 cm, 310kg monster, now occupying a significant portion of my workshop.
/..my eyesight isnt the best, so im using some magnification for reading contacts. The magnetic base holding the lens is one for dial test indicators, commonly used in machining.
Unfortunately, someone less patient (maybe the previous owner) tried to pry off the aluminum screen, so that both the dial and handle are having significant amounts of play. To make matters worse, something is ratting INSIDE the dial, i am assuming a broken off screw, that every once in a while lodges itself behind the dial, completely blocking it.
Since the dial is made of aluminum, i luckily managed to keep the screw in position with magnets and hot glue, but this is far from a perfect environment for learning Manipulation.
...not elegant but it does its job
Act II
Establishing the contact points was easy however, they started out as 7.5 and 15.75, and that is where i started graphing.
After several attempts, i realized that we are dealing with those pesky oval wheels here (note the vaguely sinusoidal behavior in the plots, especially on the right contact point ) and identified the minimum points on each, to proceed with starting points that are not masking anything.
These were found to be at w1:36, w2:22, w3:45
Next up, i was pretending it to be 4 wheel and fixing w2, w3, w4 to my minima. on w1, taking 15 digit intervals, i established that there is no significant change. If it were 4 wheel i reason, i should get another oval-like signature.
Having established that its a 3 wheel La Gard, the descent into madness begins.
Act III
Since i don't have any prior knowledge in dialing, I decided to play it safe, and dial in all combinations for graphing via the method provided by the provided instructions. (This should work too, right? ...right??)
(4x counterclockwise to w1, 3x clockwise to w2, 2x counterclockwise to w1, 1x clockwise to contact area, for testing)
In the last Graph something strange happened: Around w1:76 within the contact area i have points with higher friction, and i don't know what to make of it - my guess would be that someone put the Dial in the contact area and really did a number on the safe handle, denting the wheel, but i am speculating (see the question marks for those friction points)
From all of the above, i am convinced that we should see an open at 44-9-31, unfortunately, the lock disagrees.
I am hoping that any of you much more experienced folks has some insights of where to go from here, I'd hate to use an angle grinder on it!
What to make of that friction points?
Did i overlook any obvious gates?
What would you graph next?
...I'll keep you up to date with my progress
Last edited by schleichende_wut on Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:12 pm, edited 5 times in total.
