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Manipulation failure

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:32 pm
by webpirate
Well, I have to report a failure. Everything feels perfect with the lock.
3 wheel group 2... contact points are all perfect.
Wouldn't reveal any numbers for me...

Re: Manipulation failure

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:08 pm
by MartinHewitt
Might be a LG 3330? Did you diagnose the lock? Anything strange with the wheels? How are the graphs?

Re: Manipulation failure

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:18 am
by webpirate
Pretty sure it's a laguard 3330 but I can usually manipulate those fine. Lock feels fine. No graphs.. I don't really need to graph anymore. I might give it 1 more shot before I head back home on Saturday

Re: Manipulation failure

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:07 pm
by Cheesehead
Haven't worked with my lagard for a while, but when I'm struggling with it, it's usually because the gates (and high points) are close to equidistant from each other. I like to pick a starting combo of something like 0-35-70, then swap wheels 2 and 3. Advance at whatever resolution seems useful, I'd probably divide the wheel into 10. So 20 tests, to find a good low point to start. Call it pre-manipulation :smile:

Good luck!

Re: Manipulation failure

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:36 pm
by Alexander Mundy
That is what I do with Lagard except I do 20 number intervals. I keep whittling it down to the lowest of all 3 wheels with 20 number intervals then start looking for a gate. Here is a sample manipulation. Got lucky on that one, but if you look at it you will see what I mean by whittling it down by 20.

Image

Re: Manipulation failure

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:24 pm
by femurat
Alexander Mundy wrote:That is what I do with Lagard except I do 20 number intervals. I keep whittling it down to the lowest of all 3 wheels with 20 number intervals then start looking for a gate. Here is a sample manipulation. Got lucky on that one, but if you look at it you will see what I mean by whittling it down by 20.

Image


I don't get it. What is the first combination you try? You move all the wheel together?

Cheers :)

Re: Manipulation failure

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:19 pm
by Alexander Mundy
Top left going to right I ran W3LX20 (0-20-40-60-80) with W1L0 & W2R0. W3L40 was the lowest reading so I ran W2RX20 with W1L0 & W3L40. W2R20 was the lowest reading so I ran W1LX20 with W2R20 & W3L40. W1L60 was the lowest reading so I go back to W3 since my first run had W1 & W2 at random 0 so I ran W3LX20 with W1L60 & W2R20 (the lowest so far on 1&2). W3L20 was the lowest reading so I ran W2RX20 with W1L60 & W3L20 (W3L20 is now lower than W3L40 was in the first run). W2R20 was the lowest reading so I ran W1LX20 with W2R20 & W3L20. Nothing was lower than the last X20 graph with W1L60 so I kept W1L60. Notice how much lower all the readings were now than in the first X20 graph. Then (middle graph) I ran W3LX2 with W1L60 & W2R20. W3L30 had a nice signature. It occured to me that W2 might be R20 since the drop at 20 was so significant in the top graphs where I ran W2R was so so I skipped W2RX2 and ran W1LX2 with W3L30 and W2R20 and got the open at L10-R20-L30. I have used X20 on multiple 3 and 4 wheel locks I find it will keep wheel shadowing from being a problem and save time more often than not since the X20 runs don't take very long. (Especially with Lagard locks, 4 wheel locks, and S&G 6651) Hope that made sense and I didnt typo.

Re: Manipulation failure

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:17 pm
by femurat
Thank you for the detailed explanation. It makes sense now.
If a combination is all 10's, with your approach, you test every other number. How does it work with more random numbers?

I trust you if you say that it helps with shadowing wheels.

Cheers :)

PS good luck webpirate! I hate 3330... they're either super easy or impossible for me.