Mosler t-20

[webpirate]

Hey guys,
Been a while since I had any questions..

I have a chance to crack a mosler lock.. Anyone have any ideas what im looking at here..

Would it be a S&G style or the old JJ Taylor style lock??

[MartinHewitt]

Hi pirate, nice to read again something from you. It can have different locks, but all are, what Oldfast called, flipper fence locks. They are basically friction fence locks without the friction and with a spring. Which lock model it is exactly is probably irrelevant for manipulation. If you want to search for photos here: B-6, B-101, KCB-something. With the distance between handle center and dial center this could be narrowed down, but you will see it, once the doors are open.

[webpirate]

Thanks for the information. I'm gonna try my regular manipulation methods and hopefully i get some luck. I only really have luck with S&G and laguard.

Im going monday morning I'll keep you posted on how it goes..

[MartinHewitt]

Upsi, forgot to mention that final turn is left to stop.

I can't give you much tips for the manipulation, because I have none of these locks, but if they are similar to the Sun 700, then also the information about the strength of the CP's bump is helpful, with stronger CP is better. I did note this by making the graph's line thinner and thicker. There can be also regions where are no CPs at all. With this lock the left CP was more helpful.

[webpirate]

So if the final turn is left than means the dial sequence is AWR to start??

I don't really graph anymore is just commit to memory. But i might have to break out the old graphs..

[MartinHewitt]

Yes, R-L-R...L

[webpirate]

I didn't get it open today but all indications are that I should be able to. Contact points are very easy to feel.
And it does feel like it is RLRL - I came this conclusion bexause turning right feels like a ramp and turning left is a stronger more pronounce grabbing of the nose.

My best guess us that its a 3 wheel, based on my stethoscope helping me hear the cam picking up 3 wheels.

Everything feels as is should and you can really feel the contact points on low spots. It loud enough to think the nose fell into the cam... But alas.. It didnt..

I'll try again tomorrow.
I might check the number of wheels a second time ti make sure it's not 4..

Any tips would be appreciated... Im used to a 20-30 minute opening.. But not today

[femurat]

I know how it feels.

I don't have experience with this lock, and you're not a newbie, so I don't have any suggestion. You oscillate the dial before checking contact points, right?

Take your time

[MartinHewitt]

They all have three wheels.

With the 6730 you speak its language, but you need to learn to speak the language of the Mosler. Languages are not learned in 30 minutes.

[webpirate]

So here's the update.
I am 99.9% sure its 3 wheels.

What I'm not sure on is the dialing sequence, does it start counterclockwise like S&G or does it start clockwise.

The next issue is that the wheels seem to be not round enough to narrow the numbers down.

So with that I was able isolate each wheel to eliminate numbers.


Wheel #1 High points 0-39, Low points 40-99
Wheel #2 High points,0-19, Low points 20-55, high points 55-90
Wheel #3 High points, 0-39, Low points 40-99

Based on thrle factory combinations It seems like mosler doesn't have any forbidden zone for the 3rd wheel.

So I think the next course of action is to make a spreadsheet with the possible combinations and run through them all.

[MartinHewitt]

Your lock is similar to this: viewtopic.php?p=116892#p116892

Your case will be different and probably have some kind of hand change wheels, but the general operation is the same. This one stops on L4.

And this one: viewtopic.php?f=100&t=10451

Did you record the intensity of the CP? With the Sun 700 I had to use this information in the end phase.

PS: Do you have graphs for us?

[webpirate]

I don't have any graphs but i did notice an intensity change in the CP.

Even when the contact points didn't change there was a noticeable change in intensity at times.

I am loving this challenge..

[webpirate]

Should I be logging those areas with intense contact points??

[MartinHewitt]

Had a look at my charts of the Sun 700. Graphing only the CP would have been enough to open that lock, but there was a correlation between position and intensity and in my last opening I had the gate of W1 only by feeling the intensity of an AWL, but attributed it to W2. So it was probably the Mosler friction fence, where I needed the intensity to find the gate. To summarize this: The intensity might help or not.

[webpirate]

Well, I got her open. I'm not comfortable claiming too much credit though.


The first thing we discovered with all Wheels right, 45 was that lowest contact point.

I graphed and was only able to get wheel 2 @ 25. Nothing was revealing himself on Wheel one and three.
With that information and the previous determination that all wheels were low on 45 I parked wheel 1 on 45 wheel 2 on 25 and ran the 3rd wheel.

While running the 3rd wheel I was faced pretty much equal contact point readings all the way from 0 - 45..
Thats when i decided to just go for broke and focus on 5s and 10s)most people like to set combos on 5 and 10s..

So the game plan was to to this..

Park wheel 1 at 0
Park wheel 2 at 25
Then work the third wheel back from 25 focusing on 5s
Repeated with parking wheel 1 @ 5,10,15,20 all the way to 60, wheel 2 @ 25 and running the 3rd wheel 25 backwards..

With the 1st wheel parked on 60, second wheel @ 25,I starting running the third wheel back from 25 there was a noticeable change in contact points.. They were the lowest I had seen in the previous 2 days. I knew I was at least going to reveal the third number if not open the lock.

90,85,80,75..
When i got to 75 i feel an aggressive pull on the dial but not an engagement..
This was very suspicious so I decided to retry 60,25 and run the 3rd wheel back 25-75 in steps of 5 but slower so I wouldn't miss it.

60-25-75 she gave way to me.. About 8 hours over 3 days..

But again, not sure i want to claim it as manipulated, it was more of a process of elimination and playing on the psychology of people setting the numbers to 5 and 10s.

I do claim the discovery of wheel 2 being 25 though..