Page 1 of 1

LaGard 3300 Experiance

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:04 am
by Alexander Mundy
Picked up a used LaGard 3300 off Ebay.
First impressions:
Dial ring is plastic so that seems a little chintzy.
Dial isn't quite true. (It has a slight low spot that rubbed on the ring slightly but a .004" shim took care of that)
The Lock itself gives less feedback on the left contact point than my S&G's or my Big Red so might slow down manipulation.
(I assume that is because the lever spring doesn't have as much force as the others)
It was used but in pretty good condition so I lubed the dial bushing with 20K diff oil and the wheel pack with Houdini.
Feels solid and has very similar drag when "picking up a wheel" compared to the others.
I also picked up a used LaGard 3900 2M lock off Ebay but it is in Hong Kong so won't be here for awhile.
Will post some free spinning with it thoughts after I manipulate it a few times.

Re: LaGard 3300 Experiance

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:38 pm
by Alexander Mundy
Spent 4 to 5 hours total with the 3300 and I'm fit to be tied.
Right contact (sloped cam side) is mushy and not distinct compared to my other locks.
Even knowing the combination I don't see any gate signatures revealed.
Tried AWR, AWL, and running each wheel.
Tried finding the low spots for the wheels but there are several per wheel and the variance is 0.4 or less.
Any advise would be appreciated.

Re: LaGard 3300 Experiance

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:00 pm
by MartinHewitt
The 3330 has a strong personality. It is important, that unlike the other standard locks the high and low areas of a wheel change with rotational direction.

Re: LaGard 3300 Experiance

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:21 am
by Alexander Mundy
Interesting, indeed my 3300 wheel contact readings vary by direction.
Thanks for the tip.

Also started watching the right contact point while free spinning it as well as the left one.
Oddly enough no discernable correlation with the left contact.

Took some time to determine low spots since I had to run them different directions at the same time.
The lowest spots for standard directions are W1 L20 / W2 R60 / W3 L6.
Ran W3 left with W1 L20 and W2 R60 with no luck.
Ran W2 right with W1 L20 and W3 L6 with no luck.
Ran W1 left with W2 R60 and W3 L0.
(0 instead of 6 so I wasn't left in the middle of the contact area)
I might have found a gate signature of L76 on W1.
Both contact points narrowed toward each other at L74 and widened back at L78.
Amplified with W3 L6 instead of L0 and center appears to be L75.5.
Ran out of time.
Possible 75.5-?-?

Re: LaGard 3300 Experiance

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:01 pm
by MartinHewitt
Alexander Mundy wrote:Ran W3 left with W1 L20 and W2 R60 with no luck.

When you are at the end of a L20-R60-Lx you can conveniently reverse the direction of W3 and do a scan of L20-R60-Rx.

Re: LaGard 3330 Experiance

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:17 pm
by Alexander Mundy
Thanks for that tip.

BTW, I found this post very helpful to understand what is going on: https://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?p=111812&sid=fd8afa2f4ec67fa6e2aad3c21ab3746a#p111812

Oldfast wrote: <snip> Extreme fluctuations
exhibited by LaGards (and Ilco's P67 lock) are a direct result of what's known as 'wheel float'. Wheel float exists, to
some extent, in nearly every lock. But LaGard has it to such a degree that it tends to throw most of us for a real loop.

Without writing an entire article, lol... basically 3 things factor into creating wheel float:
1. the space/tolerance that exists between the wheels and wheel post. (If the center hole of
each wheel were a perfect fit to the wheel post, there wouldn't be enough 'play' for rotation.
)
2. device used within a lock to provide tension on the wheel pack. (This 'sandwiches' the
wheels together for a properly functioning lock. In the case of LaGard's - a wave washer.
)
3. And finally, rotational force/torque on the wheels (that occur when we're turning them.)

A wheel when being turned will be lifted up off the wheel post, or, pressed down. Naturally,
this brings the wheel closer to, or further from, the fence; giving us a wide range of readings.
Whether a wheel is lifted up or pressed down will be dependent on both the direction in which
we're rotating as well as where we're at within one revolution.

Logic says gravity will always bring a wheel to rest/hang on the wheel post at its' lowest point.
That's where the wave washer comes into play. The tension will 'hold' a wheel in a suspended
state, leaving it 'hovering' up off the wheel post.

So there you have it - what took my dumbass nearly 4 yrs to understand.... <snip>


I made the following 2 short videos that show the effect.

This one shows the amount of wheel float for wheel 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNBho8wQ_BQ

And this one shows measurements of the wheel float of wheel 3 between right and left rotations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djl9uNJikn8

(For some reason I was not able to embed the videos.