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Newb needing guidance

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Alexander Mundy

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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:27 pm

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:14 am

Newb needing guidance

This is my first attempt at manipulation.
I have a Big Red mounted cut away from MBA.
I set the combo to 7-28-60.
I printed a vernier on sticky paper and put it on the outer ring and found it really quick and easy to use.
I ran in increments of 2 then amplified the 2 gate areas found to 1.
The wheel runs freely and the contact points are really easy to determine.
My first graph I picked up a large drop in contact area centered at 60-1/2 and a slightly lesser one at 27-1/2.
They both look like gates to me based on following several threads here.
I did a high test with 60-1/2 and W3 had a 0.8 and 0.5 wider contact area than W1 and W2 respectively so W3 60-1/2.
Textbook at that point to me so I was really pleased.
However I parked W3 at 60-1/2 and ran a high and low test for 27-1/2 on W1 & W2 and the high test was just 0.1 differential and the low test even.
I ran them again watching to make sure I had the wheels set correctly gave the same results.
Given that I know W2 is 28 the 0.1 differential is incorrect.
I ran a second graph from 0 to 32 with W3 parked on 60-1/2 and picked up the gate at 27-1/2 but did not pick up the gate at 7.
What would be the proper thing to do at this point?
Test combos?
Some dialing test I am not aware of?


Image
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MartinHewitt

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Location: Germany

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:01 pm

Re: Newb needing guidance

Hi Alexander, nice to have you here. The Big Red is a great lock to begin with.

Your graph is quite small, so I can't read everything. But from what I can read I think it is correct what you did. Some things you might want to try:
1) I found it to work much better on the S&G 6730 to just use a change of 5 numbers for Hi/Lo tests. The S&G has wheels where this is very helpful, but it might improve the readings on the Big Red too, because there are less unknown changes. In your case with the change from L to R the offset from the center is even a bit larger, about 11 to 12 numbers, due to the movement and precision of the movable flies.
2) There are people teaching manipulation with looking at the distance/width of the CPs to simplify stuff for a class about manipulation. I don't think this is a good idea, because a lot of information is lost. If one CP has a lot of error and the other CP has a lot of information, the result will be a width with a lot of error and not with a lot of information. Look at both on its on and check if they agree.
3) You might want to do also the test for 27 1/2 on all wheels like your first test at 60 1/2 to reduce changes.
4) I think the Big Red shows very well when a wheel pickup is happening. Use this to help you knowing what's happening inside the lock. This helps preventing mistakes in dialing combinations like R37-L27-L60. You will then also notice, that when you dialed W1 to L27 and dial then right to position W2 to R37 you will not pick up W2 at 27, but at 25 or 26.
5) And independent from your problem: I recommend connecting the dots. It is easier to see what's happening that way.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Alexander Mundy

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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:27 pm

Post Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:00 pm

Re: Newb needing guidance

Thank you for the suggestions.
The image is a link so clicking on it should enlarge it.
I will try offset of 5 next I get back to it.
Also will try all 3 at 27-1/2.
I have a 6730 that I just mounted for my next lock after I get confident with the Big Red.
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Squelchtone

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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:16 pm

Location: Massachusetts USA

Post Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:02 pm

Re: Newb needing guidance

Nice reference to It Takes a Thief

=)
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Alexander Mundy

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Post Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:10 pm

Re: Newb needing guidance

Good catch. Alexander Mundy has been my nickname since 1980. Used it in the BBS days and it followed me to the internet. Given to me by the IBM 370 sysop at college after I hacked the 370 from the student partition to the faculity partition (MUSIC & CMS) and then gave myself sysop privileges. Created a fake student with all the appropriate records for my final in assembler. Had to help him patch it before they would release my grades. Wasn't illegal back then but the facility was pissed, my teacher however gave me an A. They shouldn't have left that 10 foot long or so system manual in the corner of the computer lab for a geek to read. (Pop your PSW off the stack, XOR it properly, push it back in the stack for anyone familiar with the 370)
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Alexander Mundy

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Posts: 49

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:27 pm

Post Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:19 pm

Re: Newb needing guidance

BTW, the Big Red gave up W1 as 7 by a process of elimination alternating parking W2 and W3 at 60 and 27-1/2. Had someone else set the combo 5 times and got quicker at it. Hard not to look at the wheels with a cutaway though so moved on the the S&G 6730.

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