John Baumann Safe with Yale geared lock

[Hoarder]

This safe is marked John Baumann Safe Co St. Louis MO. It don't look like any of the three J. Baum safes I own. I think it was a resto and the previous owner picked a name... The T-handle is hex unlike the round JB handles. It has a geared Yale lock with "The National Safe & Lock Co" on the dial ring. 6.25" between handle center to dial center. Any information about this safe at all will be greatly appreciated!

[MartinHewitt]

"Geared" means that you can feel gears in the lock?

[bitbuster]

Your National safe may have the Yale 025 1/2 lock inside.

[Hoarder]

Yes, "geared lock" means I can feel gears when turning the dial. Unfortunately, I am not able to spin the dial fast as I get a "BRRRRRR" from the dial shaft vibrating. The dial contacts the ring sometimes and clicks as the dial moves up/down/side-side which has made consistent readings impossible for me so far.

bitbuster - Man THANK YOU! I'm gonna google the 025 and see if I can get some clues on how to manipulate it. I've only manipulated 7 combo safes and this National will make 8 if I can get it open.

[bitbuster]

That's not a definitive. It's what I think it might be.

[MartinHewitt]

The 025 1/2 looks rather fancy for such type of safe, IMHO. Would a Yale OC-5 also give a gear feeling? In any case both would be friction fence locks which provide a contact point only in one direction. Where and in which direction to you believe to feel contact points?

[00247]

I'm gonna google the 025 and see if I can get some clues on how to manipulate it. I've only manipulated 7 combo safes and this National will make 8 if I can get it open.

If you haven't already, be sure to read this thread. You have your work cut out for you.

http://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=12747

[Hoarder]

Ok, if I hadn't been so half-brained and aggravated I would have mentioned that I feel 4 wheels when rotating the dial and also feel gears. Important information that is. I'm humbled that you can ID the lock with so little information. This stupid lock vibrates at anything over "normal dialing" speed.

MH - I get definitive feeling and sound only CLOCKWISE. Nothing anti-clockwise. I feel/hear marks at around 60 and at 0. 60 is only heard on the 4th turn of the dial and 0 is heard every clockwise turn.

[MartinHewitt]

Clockwise would match with the 025 1/2.

[Hoarder]

It is OPEN!!!!

I applied graphite powder on Friday and got it EVERYWHERE. I have the slickest shop floor in town. But, all the anomalous noises went away except for the bump at 0. I read, tried, studied, tried... Finally got a hit today from 47-55 on the 4th turn at the CP. Read some more, made arrows, drew a chart... THE DIAL STOPPED! Handle turned, and safe opened.

After the full body tingling stopped, that's when reality hit me. It's not a "safe"! It's a friggin asbestos lined fire cabinet! No concrete anywhere. Plate-asbestos-plywood.

Well, here are some pictures.

[MartinHewitt]

Great work! Looks to me like a Yale 027. I hope you find a solution for this awful isolation material.

(I always think the carpet is kinda funny.)

[Hoarder]

Yea, I think I'm gonna tape up the door and spray it with some 3M 77 adhesive. That stuff should hold the asbestos in as it is a miracle product in upholstery. It sticks to fiberglass like nobodies business. It's a shame though. I hoped for stepped door and concrete. It's just 5/16" plate.

I understand now, the arrows. CP has a LOT to tell. This is the first one I've cracked with ZERO feedback from the handle and BOY... I went numb when it stopped and the handle turned.

[MartinHewitt]

You should be able to see a difference in weight between the light and heavy safe construction.

With most lock types you won't get feedback from the handle. Only the low end provide that. Boltwork going directly into the wheels or pushing something into the wheels. It was interesting for me that with your Yale OBB - which has a gravity controlled fence - it was possible to push the fence in and get thereby a feedback.

[00247]

While the safe constructions may disappoint you getting the lock open was quite an accomplishment. It is a formidable foe. Congratulations!

[Oldfast]

Fantastic! A great accomplishment for sure. No doubt it felt good!

National's thin wall fire safe with a Yale 026 lock.
4-wheel, direct-drive, friction fence, w/ roller bolt.
Contact point approximately zero when turning right.

If/when you have time, I'd love to hear some details about the spin.
How wide and how much fluctuation you received from gates, etc...

Also, the graphite versus a liquid lubricant is intriguing. I say this because I've always used Tri-Flow. And although it normally improves matters... I've also had some occasions where I regretted using it, as it made matters worse (actually creating noise and/or chatters that were not there to begin with). No doubt the graphite would be very messy, lol, but it might be something to keep in mind. Thanks for sharing. And again - great job! VERY excited for you.