Group 2M Hell

[tarboxb]

Hello all,

I am still quite new here and haven't posted in a while but I fancy myself a safe manipulator. I have cracked quite a few now and have had many quite fast openings. I also free spin virtually exclusively. Tonight I had my first real bum out though. I went to open a gun safe for someone expecting a Sargent and Greenleaf 6741 and a quick opening. A few moments in I realized things weren't right. This guy has a group 2m of the LaGard style with the tomahawk. I battled trying to feel when the fence touches the wheels and was not confident in my readings. I can't really hear the fence touch the wheels either. I have read a few posts about these and if I am not mistaken they have still managed to evade us. Has anyone successfully opened one? I really would like to. Also any info on the safe would be appreciated so I can confirm the lock is indeed a 3332.

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[Jaakko Fagerlund]

That 3332 is possible to be opened, but requires a bit of extra gear to listen to it. I have never heard of someone manuplating it open by just feel only.

[tarboxb]

Yeah my thought was to mount some sort of a piezo element or mic to the door and record the movement through the contact area. Then I can isolate the fence contact noise and note the frequency. The frequency should change when a gate aligns and the fence contacts a different wheel.

[tarboxb]

I have made some "progress!" I wired two piezo elements to a stereo mic jack and connected them to my computer after taping them to the back of my 6730. By rapidly entering the contact area and "dropping" the fence on the wheels I was able to simulate what occurs in one of these group 2m locks. I used audacity to record the impact and then used its spectrum analyzer to determine the frequency at the peak amplitude of the noise under varying wheel conditions. It appears that gate signatures actually do exist! Of course doing this on the real lock inside of the safe may be more difficult but we will see. The first thing I think I need to do is actually crack my 6730 by only audio frequency analysis and not taking contact readings. If I can do that then I am confident I can do the real group 2m! This certainly is exciting albeit a bit frustrating!

AWL
All readings taken as hertz.
79 - 1734.25
80 - 1743.5
81 - 1680.25 GATE
82 - 1732
83 - 1733.75

68 - 1780.25
69 - 1747
70 - 1649 GATE
71 - 1717.25
72 - 1760

1631 - 2nd and 3rd Gates Simultaneously

[Cheesehead]

Nice work! I've been wanting to give one of these a try, but I don't exactly have one lying around. So, a couple of questions...

Do you take multiple readings for the same numbers? Does the frequency fluctuate much? Also, the Hz readings change a lot from number to number, would you be willing to post a larger sample size for comparison here to satisfy my curiosity?

-Tyler

[tarboxb]

Thank you for the kind words Tyler. I have been taking dour readings per number and sometimes they do vary quite a bit. I try to dump any "flyers." I have been working with my 6730 tonight and was convinced I was seeing "wheel signatures " in the spectrogram which would easily allow me to ID which wheel the fence was hitting but so far no dice. I ended up asking for the combo and am doing more studying of exactly how to do this. I unfortunately don't have much more meaningful data yet but will be posting a tutorial video on this process once I am confident in it. I will keep you posted!

[Cheesehead]

Here's a link to a thread here where Daggers has done some work. Looks like it might be a bit of a slog fest. Good luck!
https://www.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=9209

[Cheesehead]

Also this: viewtopic.php?f=100&t=8822