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My First Attempt at a Graph

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Alexandar_Case

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Location: Canada

Post Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:44 pm

My First Attempt at a Graph

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and new to safe dial manipulation. Saying that I am fresh with safe dial manipulation would be an understatement :). None the less, I just tried to make my first graph of what I believe is the third wheel, or 1st number in the combination.The safe lock that I have is attached to a safe that I own. According to my research, this is a Chinese knock-off of a LaGard Safe lock ( it is a Group 2 1548 Lexam ). Here I've included some pictures so you can see what I'm dealing with.


3.JPG


5.JPG


I tried using TNL Guide to Manipulation but I found that I couldn't hear the right contact points, so I just did the left ones ( for this lock I used the procedures from a book titled "Techniques of Safe and Vault Manipulation" by Howard Kyle ). Here's my graph.

Document (4).jpg



This is all new to me, and my graph looks really weird compared to other graphs I've seen, but knowing that the 1st number in the combination is 79, does the graph represent this? I realize I have a lot to learn and have a ton of studying to do to really comprehend what I am doing. Any help, pointers, guidance, comments in relation to this first graph I attempted would be greatly appreciated.
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femurat

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Post Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:49 am

Re: My First Attempt at a Graph

Well the first graph is always imprecise and has many high low points due to inconsistency in reading contact points. Your graph looks good for a first one. You may have gates at zero, at 40 and between 77.5 and 80. Having the other contact point would help you a lot. For now you could amplify the areas I mentioned by checking every increment around there.

Good luck :)
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twenglish 1

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Location: Pennsylvania

Post Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: My First Attempt at a Graph

I too recently made an attempt at safe manipulation, but I was wondering if you have the blank templates for the graph you used, I can't seem to find them, I have been using an excel graph, I would like to give a paper graph a try
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:16 am

Location: Michigan

Post Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:18 pm

Re: My First Attempt at a Graph

Alexandar, welcome! Great start. And a nice little safe you have to play with there.

Dunno how much help I can be at this point. I think you're learning
curve is naturally occurring, and many of your questions will prolly
be answered as you continue on with another couple sessions.

I think it would do us well though to talk a little terminology.
Most importantly is that your lingo makes sense to YOU.

However, if others come into the conversation, it becomes critical that we're all on the same page.
It's very difficult to make much headway if I'm telling you about w1 while you're looking at w3! lol

Alexandar_Case wrote:.....I just tried to make my first graph of what I believe is the third wheel, or 1st number in the combination.

In your lock, w3 is closest to the drive cam & furthest from the dial. It corresponds with the last # of the combo.
Wheel 1 then is closest to the dial and furthest from the drive cam. It corresponds with the 1st # of the combo.

We again run into problems when referring to CP's. Various books label the Left & Right CP's differently :???:

The side of the gate that is more gradually sloped is the RIGHT CP.
Turn left (counter-clockwise) in order to touch this side of the gate.

The side of the gate that is more abrupt & steep is the LEFT CP.
Turn right (clockwise) in order to touch this side of the gate.

Hopefully that all helps rather than complicates? lol. As Femurat mentioned, the other CP will be helpful.
You said you couldn't hear it. That's ok. But you should still be able to feel it. From your LCP @ 99, turn
left (counter-clockwise)... you should feel the RCP around 8, 9, or 10? Although this CP is more subtle,
it will actually give you much more fluctuation and info than the LCP. Experiment taking readings at it.
If you need to, take the back cover off and watch to help you recognize and stop at the initial contact.

One other thing I'd suggest: take a quick second to make sure the drive cam & dial are solidly
connected and move as one unit. The spindle (threaded rod that comes out of the dial and
goes through the lock
) threads into the drive cam. The little piece of metal you see towards
the center of the drive cam is a spline key. It's friction fitted and ties the cam & dial together.

Hold the cam with one hand and keep an eye on it while turning the dial lightly back & forth.
There should be no play between the cam & spindle. If there is, the spline key has worked its'
way loose. There's nothing worse than trying to learn manipulation with a loose spline key!
Your readings will be anything but consistent. You'll go nuts, lol. Anyway, it's probably fine.
But it's worth checking just to make sure... and it only takes a couple of seconds.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Papa Gleb

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Location: Brooklyn, NY

Post Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:24 am

Re: My First Attempt at a Graph

Alex, you came to the right place. The gents here are out-of-your-mind knowledgeable, experienced and always willing to help so feel free to ask any and all questions you may have. I know sometime ego or fear of asking "stupid" questions makes many of us sit in silence but this place is far from the judge's chambers, lol. I too just boarded the manipulation train and am currently doing my homework.
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lockout1

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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:36 am

Location: UK

Post Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: My First Attempt at a Graph

Hi everyone in my experience in manipulating safe combo locks start with w3 the farthest from the dial remembering the forbidden zone which differs on different make locks if you carnt see differences in heights after going through each process then try w2 I have learnt to manipulate without using a graph which is much quicker I also find using the right contact point works better atleast on my collection of locks.
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Papa Gleb

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Location: Brooklyn, NY

Post Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:34 pm

Re: My First Attempt at a Graph

Lockout, make a new thread about your method with as much detail as possible. There are a few new spinner to the forum and like me, are curious to hear more on this and possibly learn something.
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Alexandar_Case

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Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:48 pm

Location: Canada

Post Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:51 pm

Re: My First Attempt at a Graph

@ twenglish 1

Here is a copy of the graph I used that you can download.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxjtobN9kKMyQzJoakY3VTFTWWs/view?usp=sharing

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