Diebold 177-55 or 180-55?

[Mikeh727]

Hey Guys,

I'm trying to determine which lock is installed in this particular safe. According to the books I have (and some advice from a member here), the safe is an old Diebold lug door safe, and it came with one of two locks installed. For a couple of years it came with the 177-55, which is a group two lock. But the majority were shipped with a 180-55, which I believe is a MP lock. You are supposed to be able to tell if the 180-55 is installed by spinning the dial and hearing a faint click when the zero passes the index. Also, the changing index is about 5 1/3 increments to the right of the dialing index on the dial ring.



The changing index matches what I would expect if it were the 180, but I don't feel or hear a click as the dial passes zero. I DO hear the normal clicks you would expect as the drive cam passes under the nose of the fence. I can also feel very subtle contact points at about 96 1/2 and 7.

The contact points are very faint, fainter than I've felt. What I'm wondering is if the 180 lock would have contact points, even though it is an MP lock. I'm not familiar with these locks and the pictures I've seen don't reveal much. And I've taken this thing for a spin AWL and AWR and found nothing of note. Part of that could be me adjusting to the very faint contact points.

If anyone has any info or advice, that would be great.

Thanks!

-Mike

[jones]

On page 176 of Dave McOmie on Hinged Round Doors that dial is listed as one that can be pried off, or drilled and tapped off & epoxied back together later on. That same dial is not normally used with the 180-55 lock according to Dave.
The changing index, a small dot approx. 5.2 numbers to the right of the dialing index is not indicative of the 180-55 lock. Dave says it is most important to listen/feel for the mushy click as the dial passes 0, in order to determine the 180-55
Dave's advice is to drill for a change key hole, if the lock is still functional, through the top or side of the safe. To side drill ckh for 177-55 drill 4 to 4 1/4" back from door face 9/16" up. To top drill to scope ckh from top, drill
4 to 4 1/4" back from door face 5/16" L

I have only worked on one of these type safes, so I cannot contribute anything. However it does seem odd that the opening handle is pointed upward, as in every pic I have seen that handle is always at the halfway point
Also Dave shows in his repair section how to replace the 177-55 or even the 180-55 lock with a single point lock, in the event that parts are not available, I suppose this safe could have been retrofit in the past.

I think I would prefer to drill for the CKH, pretty hard to ruin an irreplaceable lock doing that.

[Doogs]

Is that a safe or an autoclave?

Sorry Mike I'm being a smartass. Cool safe though and I wish I could help you out. However I am looking forward to updates as it looks like a tough nut to crack and the manipulation aspect of the hobby is really starting to pique my interest. Any and all input will be educational as it really is quite fascinating. I look forward to learning this art and being able to contribute in the future.

Good luck and productive spinning

The other, other, other, other, Mike


ETA: Although Jones gave some good info on cracking, it would seem a shame to drill such a safe. i hope and have faith that you can caress this sweetheart open.

[jones]

I don't know why you think it would be a shame to drill a 2000+ pound ugly monster like this, but the evidence of drilling can be covered up fairly easily. I drill open most of the safes i open and
I haven't felt sorry for most of them. There was that old lift-out square door that got swiss-cheesed, but it wasn't my fault the proper info was accidentally transposed on the wrong page. Well there
was that old Star round door lift out, that needed all three door bolts drilled off, but hey, I wasn't the guy who allowed the kitchen to flood and let it get all rusty.

[Doogs]

I don't know why you think it would be a shame to drill a 2000+ pound ugly monster like this, but the evidence of drilling can be covered up fairly easily. I drill open most of the safes i open and
I haven't felt sorry for most of them. There was that old lift-out square door that got swiss-cheesed, but it wasn't my fault the proper info was accidentally transposed on the wrong page. Well there
was that old Star round door lift out, that needed all three door bolts drilled off, but hey, I wasn't the guy who allowed the kitchen to flood and let it get all rusty.

Jones I can appreciate that a job has to be done and buck has to be made but this to the best of my knowledge isn't a "job" but that was my assumption,. Sometimes one has to appreciate what something is and the labour that went into crafting it. Maybe this isn't a masterpiece or a one off artisans work of art but that doesn't mean that it should be treated like a piece of trash to be thrown to the curb. A little love and a bit of elbow grease could salvage this old broken down box into something that could last for another 100+ years. Isn't that worth some effort?

Cheers Mate:
Mike

[g_kinz]

well in jones point it is a job and time is money. you spend 2-3 hours spinning just to drill it later. not to mention while spinning the phone is ringing and you have to answer it. i know i always chose the fastest way to get my calls done. i can lose a customer if i have too long of an eta

[Doogs]

well in jones point it is a job and time is money. you spend 2-3 hours spinning just to drill it later. not to mention while spinning the phone is ringing and you have to answer it. i know i always chose the fastest way to get my calls done. i can lose a customer if i have too long of an eta

Absolutely g_ if it's a job you need to do whatever it takes to get the job done. If it's not why not take the time and manipulate it. Apparently i didn't explain myself well nor comprehend the intent original post.

Anyway i'm sure Mike's looking for advice not my ramblings. I apologise for the hijacking.

[jones]

I don't know why you think it would be a shame to drill a 2000+ pound ugly monster like this, but the evidence of drilling can be covered up fairly easily. I drill open most of the safes i open and
I haven't felt sorry for most of them. There was that old lift-out square door that got swiss-cheesed, but it wasn't my fault the proper info was accidentally transposed on the wrong page. Well there
was that old Star round door lift out, that needed all three door bolts drilled off, but hey, I wasn't the guy who allowed the kitchen to flood and let it get all rusty.

Jones I can appreciate that a job has to be done and buck has to be made but this to the best of my knowledge isn't a "job" but that was my assumption,. Sometimes one has to appreciate what something is and the labour that went into crafting it. Maybe this isn't a masterpiece or a one off artisans work of art but that doesn't mean that it should be treated like a piece of trash to be thrown to the curb. A little love and a bit of elbow grease could salvage this old broken down box into something that could last for another 100+ years. Isn't that worth some effort?

Cheers Mate:
Mike

Dude who said anything about throwing it out? I like to put any safe I open back into use, otherwise I wouldn't bother stocking all the repair parts I do
I have swiss-cheesed safes that were sent to the welder afterwards and are still in use, as far as I know

[Oldfast]

Good to see ya Mike!

I wish I could add something of use here... but all I have at the moment is 'nice challenge ya got there'!

I do have an external hard drive with a whole lotta stuff. I don't hook it up too often... but I'll take a look.

[g_kinz]

yeah yo can drill and repair a safe and never really know it was drilled. im learning manipulation because i get bored and i can kill time practicing. dont plan on getting into safes anytime soon

[Mikeh727]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all of the information, and the banter...it's always fun to read.

I'll be taking a look at this safe again today. It belongs to a local business who called me to try and manipulate it open. I hope to make some progress and post about a successful opening! Jones, if drilling ends up being the way to go, thanks for the information on drill points.

-Mike

[Mikeh727]

Well, over a month later and having spent a couple of hours with this safe, I'm still not sure what I am dealing with. There are definite but very 'mushy' contact points at right around 96 1/2 and 7. Going AWL I get an indication at about zero on the LCP only of nearly 1/2 an increment that goes all the way to about 10, so it's VERY wide. I know that a reading that goes on that long is possible, but finding a gate center is impossible.

Because the points are so mushy, I'm taking a LOT of time just taking readings, and even resorted to mounting a vernier scale and graphing instead of free spinning. It takes a long time because the points are mushy and pretty faint and I want to be sure that I'm being accurate.

Bottom line...there are contact points. The right one doesn't ever indicate, only the left one indicates (so far). There is what I would interpret as a wide and distinct signature between zero and ten when spinning left.

High/Low testing didn't reveal anything of value and I ran out of time before I could try anything else.

I am doing this on no particular timetable, and will be heading back to play with this thing again soon. But I'm not really sure how to interpret this large signature, and the fact that it's between zero and ten seems a bit strange.

I'm still not sure what I'm dealing with, so if anyone has any other insight, I'd be interested to hear it. Otherwise, I'll post anything else that I discover once I get another shot at it.

Cheers!

-Mike