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MULTACC Real Estate Lock

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GWiens2001

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:56 am

MULTACC Real Estate Lock

MULTACC Real Estate Lock - Warning - very picture heavy!!!

This was a $3 find at a swap meet. No key, no combination(s). The only worthwhile lock in the whole flipping swap meet :-(

This type of lock is used by real estate agents who want to sell your house. This particular lock is no longer produced or supported. I am also looking for a key for this lock, so if you have one, PM Me!!! The real estate agent locks the shackle onto your door knob, water pipe, or other such 'secure' location, and the door at the bottom opens, holding the key to your home.

The Front:

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The right side: The slot is the key hole.

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The Bottom:

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The Back. I have removed one of the rubber squares at the bottom, and punched a hole in the cap to get it off the first time as I was figuring this thing out. More on that later, too.

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This combination dial opens the shackle. 20 numbers on the dial, and if you work the shackle a bit, there is about 1 number high or low play. Three number combination, so 8,000 theoretical differs. Clockwise a few turns to the first number, counterclockwise past the second number once and stopping on the second number the second time, and clockwise to the final number, then pull the shackle. You will need to push the shackle down before dialing the number. More on that later.

Image

And the open shackle:

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That is my son's finger, pointing to the parts of interest! He is soooo helpful! :-D

While the numbers for the combination that opens the key tray go from 1 to 9, the finger prevents any actual numbers above 7 from being entered! Sounds like false advertising to me!

Image

The back, with the caps removed. Found this out by accident, as I was trying to remove the fulcrum pin for the key tray at the bottom of the lock. By the way, removing the fulcrum pin does not allow the key tray to be opened. Those things that look like large rivets are just caps covering the ultra high security fasteners that only a specialized tool can open:

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Those fasteners are removed. Lucky for me, being a mechanic, I just happened to have one of those high security fasterner removal tools. :mrgreen: You can see that the back cover is spring loaded.

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And the first of the gut-shots that Oldfast hates so much. ;-)

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At the top of the lock in the above picture, you can see the locking lug and combination disks for the shackle. At the bottom you see the key tray. In the middle you see the film/carrier that keeps track of every key/combination used to successfully open the lock. The carrier also keeps the key tray shut until the key and combination is entered.

Here is the film carrier

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and the bottom of the carrier:

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The back side of the dials. Those shapes apply a unique pattern for each number on the dial. Each dial wheel controls three fingers on the film carrier. 5 wheels, 15 fingers.

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An end view of the keyway and wheels. Inside the keyway, you can see a post sticking up. More accurately, there are 5 posts, one for each slider, one slider for each wheel.

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One side of the wheels. The wheels are all oriented in the following two pictures the same way. Yes, the cuts in the wheels have a different pattern for each wheel.

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The other side of the wheels:

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If you noticed, the wheels have a step on each side, allowing them to fit inside each other. This makes decoding by shimming them difficult. Knowing how the wheels are cut, shimming does not help, anyway! You already saw that each wheel has a different pattern of cuts, and the cuts do not match up even if the numbers do. Here is another surprise - the wheels have false gates in them, too! The slider can partly go into the slot due to the taper on the false gates, but it can not go all the way through.

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The spindle without the wheels on it. Now you get your first decent view of the sliders.

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The spindle opened up - yes, it is two halves, with the sliders inside. You can see that a laser-cut key is used to position the sliders at the proper height for the specified combination number. The beauty of this system is that you can not visually decode the combination from the key, because the same heights of sliders would have different numbers that they would work with on the wheels. In this manner, each real estate agent could have their own key and combination. Each key/combination that opens the lock leaves an imprint on the film, so there is a record of who was in the house. Also, if somebody finds a key, or knows the combination but does not have the key, the homeowners key can not be accessed. Unless they have that super secret tool and know about the caps. :twisted:

Image

Here is a view of an individual slider.

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The film carrier normally sits on the spindle like this. (Wheels are removed for clarity)

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When the correct key and combination are entered, the spindle and sliders can fit through the proper slots in the wheels and the key is used to push the spindle over just about 1/8" or so (about 2-3mm). Then the film carrier can drop into the slots in the spindle like so:

Image

When this happens, several things happen at once. A spring spins one side of the film roll, so fresh film is placed under the fingers. Those fingers on the film carrier are pressed against the pattern on the back side of the wheels and forced to imprint the raised parts of the wheel into the film. And finally, as the bottom end of the film carrier comes forward, it no longer blocks the locking tab on the key tray, and the spring loaded tray pops open, letting you get the key. Or candy if your real estate agent is twisted.

Here is a view of one wheel set against the fingers on the film carrier. You can see the punched codes on the film.

Image

Oldfast would kill me if I did not cover that dial combination lock that opens the shackle, especially since it is the one he graphed onto that egg. :-P

Guess I'll just have to die. Here is the inner parts of the key tray. In the center closest to you in the picture, is the post that the film carrier keeps from moving to open the tray.

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The tray, spring, and fulcrum pin that keep the tray in place. The pin is the one that can be seen on the bottom of the lock waaaaayyyy up above.

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OK, OK Mike! Here is the inner view of the bolt and disks.

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The locking bolt

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The disks with the bolt removed

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and the disks removed. They are removed by taking out that center screw, which holds in the spindle of the dial.

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The disassembled spindle, dial, disks and spacers. You can see the combination on the disks...5-1-6

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And flipped over. You can also see that the number 3 wheel has false gates to make manipulation more difficult. If the shackle is pulled outwards to try spinning the dial to figure out the combination, the dial will not turn due to these false gates.

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The inside of the spindle hole, and the spring I did not remove for the picture. Yes, it will fall out.

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Hope this was worth the LOOOONG read.

Gordon

P.S. No, this is not the lock that was graphed on Oldfast's egg!
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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MBI

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:58 am

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

Thanks for posting this. I only skimmed it since I'm braindead this late, but I'm very intrigued. Going to take a more comprehensive look tomorrow when my brain is working.
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Riyame

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:11 am

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

Oh wow, that thing is really interesting. You really found quite the piece there.
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
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ARF-GEF

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:24 am

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

Very nice find Gordon.

Although the screws ruin the security, the locking mechanism is quite elaborate. I really like the built in film operating "black box".
I definitely think they put a lot of thought into this, I can't understand why to ruin it with those "security fasteners".

I've got a few question: 1.) If I got it correctly the upper combination only controls the shackle the lower combination and the key combined control the key chamber.

2.) Come to think about it: Since the key controls the combination, you could make a key for this lock (any code will do but for ease of making it, one with all the lowest cuts) then you could open any of these with your own personal combination. (?)
I know, a screwdriver will do it too, but still a key could be marginally faster.

PS.:
I've never really understood these, every single one I saw is ridiculously unsafe. Even shackling it to the door knob or a pipe sounds horrifying from a security point of view.
3a.) Does anyone know of a good one?
Same with key safes. Somehow all of them looks really like weak point. What's the sense in having several locks when all of them can be overcome with opening a single key safe. But the question here is the same too:
3b.)Does anyone know of a good one?
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
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GWiens2001

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:02 am

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

ARF-GEF wrote:Very nice find Gordon.

Although the screws ruin the security, the locking mechanism is quite elaborate. I really like the built in film operating "black box".
I definitely think they put a lot of thought into this, I can't understand why to ruin it with those "security fasteners".

I've got a few question: 1.) If I got it correctly the upper combination only controls the shackle the lower combination and the key combined control the key chamber.

2.) Come to think about it: Since the key controls the combination, you could make a key for this lock (any code will do but for ease of making it, one with all the lowest cuts) then you could open any of these with your own personal combination. (?)
I know, a screwdriver will do it too, but still a key could be marginally faster.

PS.:
I've never really understood these, every single one I saw is ridiculously unsafe. Even shackling it to the door knob or a pipe sounds horrifying from a security point of view.
3a.) Does anyone know of a good one?
Same with key safes. Somehow all of them looks really like weak point. What's the sense in having several locks when all of them can be overcome with opening a single key safe. But the question here is the same too:
3b.)Does anyone know of a good one?



I agree that a lot of thought went into this lock.

With the caps, it looks like extra-heavy duty bar rivets, not screws. But it makes sense that the film would need to be replaced from time to time. Unless someone had taken one of these apart themselves, it is unlikely they would realize there were screws under them. I was using a rawhide mallet to firmly tap the bottom of the lock to get the key tray pin out. That did work - the pin did come out. But the key tray still could not be opened. But while tapping the lock with the mallet, one of the caps came loose. I saw it, and tapped closer to the cap, which then popped out almost as much as my eyes did when I saw the screws. Suddenly I had a way to disassemble the lock and see how it works. If that cap had not come loose (the other three did not), I would not have realized the vulnerability.

As for just making a key, I will be attempting it. It will not be so easy. As I stated with the picture of the wheels, even if all the sliders were at the same height, due to the different patterns of cuts on the wheels, they would not all be the same number. Someone would still have to figure out the combination from scratch.

And yes, the dial combination only controls the shackle, and the five wheels for the other combination in conjuncture with the key, only controls the key tray.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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ARF-GEF

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:36 am

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

Someone would still have to figure out the combination from scratch.


Maybe try making a key and insert it all the way. Then try to decode it with the key in the lock but only 1 dial is in place. I think as long as the padlock is open in some way you could visually decode the discs one at a time.
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
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fgarci03

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:57 am

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

Absolutely AWSOME lock!

Never seen such a thing arround here. Is that strictly american?


Thank you so much for posting this!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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ARF-GEF

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:25 pm

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

I haven't seen it ever in Europe either.

If you think about it, this lock prefers to have specific ball-like style door knob. Here almost all knobs are lever like.
Of course you can also use a pipe or something.
I'm glad they are not used here, because I think they are usually insecure.
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
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PhoneMan

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:09 pm

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

I have one of these! Awesome little locks. I bought mine from a place called Risco Lock box, I think they bought out Multacc. I have the code, key, and combo too. $50 for the lock and key, and yes they stopped making them shortly after I bought mine)

Basically each agent had their own key AND code, and in order to use the key, you needed the code that went with it, so if you found a key, you'd still need the code for THAT KEY to make it work. The mylar tape records (in Binary!) the codes, and therefore the keys that opened it. Primitive audit trail!

The security of the screws comes from the fact that when the lock is on a door, you can't easily access the back of it to undo the screws.
Here's the Youtube vid of mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EruV8AWL89E

You could likely make a key on a milling machine and decipher the code for it by trial and error. I'd like a second key with a different code, but Risco no longer supports them! :(
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Oldfast

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Post Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:09 pm

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

VERY INTERESTING LOCK! I've never seen anything like it! WONDERFUL breakdown/pics/explanations Gordon!

but yeah.......
GWiens2001 wrote:.... And the first of the gut-shots that Oldfast hates so much. ;-) ....
the absolutely filthly lock-porn that's begun to plague this site has left me questioning my morals as of late.

GWiens2001 wrote:....Oldfast would kill me if I did not cover that dial combination lock that opens the shackle....
Half way through this read... I WAS beginning to wonder. lol

GWiens2001 wrote:....OK, OK Mike! Here is the inner view of the bolt and disks.....
Yup :yep: you know what's best for you.

GWiens2001 wrote:Hope this was worth the LOOOONG read.
It most certainly was!! Really enjoyed it. Thanks

p.s. PhoneMan... grabbed a ticket to your show :)
No audio on this particular computer... but I'll be back to check out that vid.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
http://www.youtube.com/Oldfast911
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GWiens2001

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Post Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:18 am

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

@Phoneman - interesting. Your model is slightly different than mine, though the function looks to be nearly identical. The only differences I see are that on yours, the keyway is more like a plug that can be turned. On mine, the keyway is a milled slot, so can not be turned. Also (very minor detail) in yours the serial number is on the upper left side of the front, on mine it is on the lower left side of the front. And yours has that protective cover, and stickers that give instructions.

Those sure would have been nice when I sat in front of the TV watching a movie dialing all possible combinations for the key tray. After no success, I tried YouTube, and saw your video. I thought it might need the key [and] a combination, but was not sure. Did not know that was your video until you linked it here! My son and I were reading your post, and when I started your video, he said "We already saw this video, Dad."

As I told Oldfast, I figured out the combination to the shackle prior to disassembly by manipulation. So this lock can be manipulated, at least as far as the shackle is concerned.

As for the false gates on the key/combo part... There are two kinds of false gates. (Refer to the above pictures for visual reference.) The first kind are the shallow grooves that do not cut through the wheel you can see above. The picture in which I refer to the false gates show the other kind - the false gates do cut all the way through the wheel, but are too narrow for the slider to pass through.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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PhoneMan

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Post Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:11 pm

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

Gordon,
the keyway on mine is a milled slot too, the key has a bevel by the head that allows it to turn. The insides of mine are identical to yours. (I took mine apart a day or two after buying it) Very cool locks. Hope you get a key made for it!

I don't know how they set these locks up for this, but from what I understand if I put my key in the lock you have and used my code, it wouldn't work. So in the real (estate) world, your key and code wouldn't work in another listing area. If you look at the combo sliders, they have little numbers (or letters?) cast into the insides of them, and the gates are different on each one, so if your lock had the wheels numbered say 12345, the combo for my key would be different on a lock say with wheels numbered 54321. Hope that's not too confusing!

Will
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GWiens2001

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Post Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:41 pm

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

Will,

Not confusing at all. The wheels are each cut differently I just need to figure out the depth of cuts so I can work out a key that will work. The age-old saying...when I get the time!

Thank you for the additional info!

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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rai

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Post Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:58 pm

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

Looks much higher quality than what is now common in the real estate lock business

they didn't take into consideration that cheap would beat them in the market. especially real estate market.

They thought security was what was important, but thats not what counts for the people who are only going to
have the property for a short while.
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PhoneMan

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Post Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: MULTACC Real Estate Lock

ARF-GEF wrote:
Someone would still have to figure out the combination from scratch.


Maybe try making a key and insert it all the way. Then try to decode it with the key in the lock but only 1 dial is in place. I think as long as the padlock is open in some way you could visually decode the discs one at a time.


This works! I have several of these, one I bought from the manufacturer with it's own key, and some I bought from a retiring real estate guy. my original key has a different code when used on the second set of boxes, and this was how I found it out, one wheel at a time!
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