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Getting started with manipulation

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Eazy123

Newbie

Posts: 9

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:35 pm

Location: Illinois

Post Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:03 pm

Re: Getting started with manipulation

femurat wrote:If you made the high low tests with numbers of other gates they give unexpected results. Which numbers did you use for the tests?

Cheers :)


D'OH.....
Image

I used 40 and 60 for the tests, both of the other gate #s...*shakes head*

Thank you! I'll try something like 30 and 70. Although - what if this was a lock I didn't know the combo to? I would have incorrectly concluded 50 was gate 1 and kept going from there...
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capt-dunc

Familiar Face

Posts: 57

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:01 am

Location: Scotland

Post Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:53 pm

Re: Getting started with manipulation

50 could also be a low spot on one of the other wheels. never ignore a result and layer your own opinions or supposed knowledge on top.


you could run 2 sets of wheels tests, going +/- 10 as you did and +/- 5.

the +/- 5 often gives good results, since neighbouring numbers in a combo shouldn't be within 5 of each other, and there's sometimes a rise either side of a gate which will give good wheel test results.
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MartinHewitt

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 542

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:54 pm

Re: Getting started with manipulation

I prefer to test with +/- 5, at least with my 6730, because the wheels seem to be higher next to the gate than 10 off. I believe this is characteristic for the S&G wheels, but my sample group is to small for a real generalization.
Last edited by MartinHewitt on Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Eazy123

Newbie

Posts: 9

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:35 pm

Location: Illinois

Post Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:40 pm

Re: Getting started with manipulation

Thanks guys. I did just try 30 and 70 as well as 35 and 65 but the first came up with wheel 1 again and the second came out at wheel 2 but by a minute amount (1/8). I will try 45 and 55 and see how that goes.
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MartinHewitt

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 542

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Getting started with manipulation

+/- 20 is really far off. There can happen a lot.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Eazy123

Newbie

Posts: 9

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:35 pm

Location: Illinois

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Getting started with manipulation

Well, I gave up for now on the SG. It seems to have lower tolerances than the LaGard so I went with that and I had a family member change the combination to something I wouldn't know, and lo and behold this morning I got it - well, sorta. When I would graph and check the wheel number and when I was certain I had it, I would look at the wheel through the cutaway to make sure I had it and sure enough I did.

So today I will change it to something I'll forget easily and tonight I will do it without looking at all.

One thing, though - I see others' graphs and it seems like people get obvious gate indications, but mine are very subtle. How do peoples' graphs jump so wildly on a gate?
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MartinHewitt

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 542

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Location: Germany

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Getting started with manipulation

The 3330 is normally more difficult than the 6730. The readings change very much when you change direction. It is also more common that one wheel hides the gate of another wheel. But there are production variations and your 6730 might be more difficult than your 3330.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Eazy123

Newbie

Posts: 9

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:35 pm

Location: Illinois

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Getting started with manipulation

My SG tends to "roll back" about 1/8 of a number no matter what fraction of a number I'm on, I wonder if that's why it's harder for me. The LG will stay where I'm at (unless I'm at a contact point which is understandable) and I seem to be able to take readings much easier.

I also made my own graph in Illustrator for amplifying, since the Locksmiths guide to manipulation doesn't include one. I feel that having a graph of 1/8 number is helpful, while it TLGTA only tracks in 1/4 of a number. It's been helpful, at least this time around. Still having trouble with figuring out what wheel the number is on when I get a number.
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castle 2

Familiar Face

Posts: 26

Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:52 pm

Location: England

Post Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: Getting started with manipulation

Eazy123 wrote:My SG tends to "roll back" about 1/8 of a number no matter what fraction of a number I'm on, I wonder if that's why it's harder for me. The LG will stay where I'm at (unless I'm at a contact point which is understandable) and I seem to be able to take readings much easier.

I also made my own graph in Illustrator for amplifying, since the Locksmiths guide to manipulation doesn't include one. I feel that having a graph of 1/8 number is helpful, while it TLGTA only tracks in 1/4 of a number. It's been helpful, at least this time around. Still having trouble with figuring out what wheel the number is on when I get a number.


Do you have a copy of lss+ or not? The information in that is fantastic...?
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Eazy123

Newbie

Posts: 9

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:35 pm

Location: Illinois

Post Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:06 am

Re: Getting started with manipulation

castle 2 wrote:
Eazy123 wrote:My SG tends to "roll back" about 1/8 of a number no matter what fraction of a number I'm on, I wonder if that's why it's harder for me. The LG will stay where I'm at (unless I'm at a contact point which is understandable) and I seem to be able to take readings much easier.

I also made my own graph in Illustrator for amplifying, since the Locksmiths guide to manipulation doesn't include one. I feel that having a graph of 1/8 number is helpful, while it TLGTA only tracks in 1/4 of a number. It's been helpful, at least this time around. Still having trouble with figuring out what wheel the number is on when I get a number.


Do you have a copy of lss+ or not? The information in that is fantastic...?


I don't. Actually never heard of it. I've been picking locks without a book for the last 2 years and never needed a book so I never read it.
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