J.B. Miller / Gougler Combination Retrieval

[Oldfast]

I know, I know... "They cannot be manipulated". I may soon agree with that statement, but...
around here, aren't those the very words we love to hear?! The reason we never sleep?!

My latest fetish folks. The J.B Miller Keyless Lock Co. Started in 1888, the company
changed hands at least three times before dying out in the early 1980's. This 90+ year
run resulted in numerous models of these locks - all varying slightly in quality and design.
The mechanism in these (which I don't fully understand yet) both challenges & fascinates me.



I'm jumping the gun here and will likely fall flat on my face... but who cares!
I will be more than happy to admit defeat if and when that time comes.
But for now, I believe these can be manipulated through sound.
A big shout out to CPT1911 for the mic!!





Another fun surprise is that they may require as little as 3, or as many as 6 'movements' for a combo.
The Red Dot above is a 4-digit combo: 4611. The little fella pictured below has a 6-digit combo! 52456.



Both these locks have known combos and neither were legitimately manipulated.
I've spent some good hours with 'em though & I've heard some VERY subtle but possibly
noticeable differences in sound that could be enough to decipher and arrive at a working combo.



HERE'S MY DILEMMA & REQUEST FOR HELP

These two locks are hardly a fair test group. I need more! Not looking to purchase... just borrow.
Here's the deal: If you're willing to send them to me, I'll ship them back to you (hopefully w/ a combo)
If I'm UNABLE to retrieve a combo I will include $5 in your package to cover your initial shipping cost.

You could see how this might get costly though, lol. 5 people, each with 1 lock could potentially be $50+
Ideally I could deal with just 1 or 2 people that happen to have a few locks to make shipping worthwhile.
Nevertheless, I'm open to anyone that may be interested. Please feel free to PM me. Much appreciated.

There's a number of people over on the Antique Lock Forum that not only have a lot of these, but know a
great deal about them. Although I'm a member, I have zero posts - so the trust factor probably isn't there.
If any of you know someone there that may be interested in this, please feel free to have 'em contact me.

[Anarchy_won]

I happen to have one, I know the combo but if noone else offers up a lock I can lend it to you. (you just pay to ship it back to Canada)

[Riyame]

I think elbow has a bunch of these. Or at least he used to.

[jeffmoss26]

I wanna see more of the shelves in the background

[Oldfast]

I happen to have one, I know the combo but if noone else offers up a lock I can lend it to you. (you just pay to ship it back to Canada)

Anarchy!! Hey, I really appreciate that. Don't feel like I'd be doin' ya much of a
favor since you have the combo... and I know shipping would be a bit more
costly. We'll see who else comes forward. But I'll keep it in mind. Thanks!

I think elbow has a bunch of these. Or at least he used to.

That would cool. Of course, I don't want to pressure anyone lol
Hopefully he sees this thread & is as curious as I am about these locks.

I wanna see more of the shelves in the background

The perfectly positioned background is no accident, lol. I've got to keep
your guys' attention somehow to get you to the bottom of the post. LOL

After well over a year, the lock room is still not quite finished yet.
Eventually when I'm content with it, I'll be sure to snap some pics.

[GWiens2001]

I'll send three of them. Two with known combos, one without known combo.

Gordon

[Oldfast]

I'll send three of them. Two with known combos, one without known combo.

Wonderful!!! I've had a couple items set aside that I've been meaning
to send to you for a while now anyway. So this will work out nicely.

Pretty sure you already know it, but I'll pm ya my addy. Thanks SO much!

[Mikeh727]

I have two with known combos. PM me your address and I'll ship them off. I bought them to try and manipulate and was not able to figure them out, although I didn't use a MIC. I'd love to find out that they can be manipulated. The mechanics of this lock are smoke and mirrors to me...I've looked at the drawings and still don't get it!



-M

[Oldfast]

Hell yeah, you guys are great! 5 of them now. It's a start.
I'll pm you my address Mike. Very much appreciated

Yeah, I don't fully understand the mechanics yet either Mike.
But they're insanely cool, eh?! Over on the Antique lock forum
I even seen an old picture of a flyer for a doorknob that worked
on the same principle. Don't know if it ever came to pass or was
successful... but wouldn't that be neat to have on your front door?

[Oldfast]

So some progress has been made in the last week. I'm eager to share my first couple truly legit openings!!
However, I sometimes like to include the frustrations, difficulties, tries & fails along the way: The journey!
Not always interesting, but it keeps it useful and real. So the story from the start begins with these two.
BIG shout out to you guys who jumped on my request for some test locks. You guys are great. Really
Thank you to Mike727, who sent me this pair (even though he already had working combinations for both).
Fortunately he gave me a heads up that the combo was on the side of each lock, lol. So I had my lovely
Alison open the package. She removed the stickers & stored them safely away. Hope I don't need em!



It was late in the evening so I got right work. The one on the left had some friction between the dial and lock body.
Not in a way that made the dial difficult to turn... but it created far too much audio interference for me to make
much since of anything. Reminded me of an angry walrus, lol. So I set it aside to focus on the other one.

This one was much better on my ears. I could very clearly hear the mechanism inside. But I gotta say....
in terms of actually recognizing a notable difference as I moved my way around... man, it's really faint!
Two hours passed by before I called it a night. I went to bed a little discouraged. But at the same time
I also felt challenged and excited. After all, if it was easy, I suppose it would have been done by now.

Bright and early the next morning and I'm back at it. I settle in for a session that turns out to be six hours.
It wasn't long before the band-aids came out so I could continue on, lol. This eventually prompted me to
experiment with what I could securely fasten to the dial. Though my initial motivator here was pain, I also
wondered if this would create some consistency in sound, and maybe help highlight those faint changes.
No luck. Anything connected to the dial simply absorbed the sound - leaving me with even less to go on.

Everything included... (manipulation time, mic charging, dial fasteners, making drawings, crunching #'s)...
I have an easy 12-14 hrs into this project at this point. And no open locks. I think it's time for a break. lol

During my well deserved break, 2 different ebay purchases were about to arrive. Little did I know these
packages would offer my first glimmer of hope that these locks (or at least some) CAN be manipulated.

[VancouverSpecial]

Hiya Mike,

Holy tease post
So excited to hear of your progress - thanks for the update.
However, I am now very much wanting to hear about the openings.

Kind regards,
Sean

[selim]

I don't post much, but I got to say,

OLDFAST has great write up's, and the pictures are wicked cool,,

Thans's Man

[Oldfast]

Thanks guys! Really glad you like following along & it's nice to have some company

Promise I won't leave ya hangin' long Sean, lol. Got some pics of
my first couple openings. Just need to put some words with 'em.

This is one of those "off the beaten path" kind of projects I need right now. It's too early yet,
until enough locks pass through my hands... but I'm really hoping this continues to materialize.
I'm sure there's quite a large number of these floating around that are not listed in code books.

Who knows, maybe I'll eventually be able to help out some avid collectors some day.
Bring some of their long cherished locks back to life. Wouldn't that be gratifying, eh?!

[selim]

To me that is humble Wisdom,, Glad your here

[Doogs]

Interesting locks Mike!

An even more interesting challenge by the looks of it.

Unfortunately I don't own any locks of this style/make but I will be on the lookout and if I come across any I'll send them along for testing/sampling.


Good luck my friend and I will be following your progress as I am quite intrigued.