Electronics and safes

[scudo]

Just a random thought from me re safes (I know nothing about them) I have seen some video clips and read with interest some of the posts on this forum, so it looks like manipulation can be done for most dial safes. But what is the situation regarding safes when electronics are introduced to them can these be manipulated or bypassed in some way. What about time locks?

[flywheel]

With electronic locks I believe the goal is to gain access to the solenoid that moves the bolt. Doing that involves drilling, attaching some wires to the correct points, a little electricity, and now an open safe.
At least that is what they appear to be doing in the youtube video.

[Neilau]

Check out the Kaba Mas X-10.

http://www.kaba-mas.com/kaba-brand/products/553040/x-10.html

As far as I know (not very far , I admit) they cannot be manipulated and are self contained. I believe the electronics were developed by IBM.

Cheers.

[MBI]

Every time I see this lock name at a quick glance I think it's Kaba X-Mas 10.

[Neilau]

It would certainly be X-MAS any time of the year if someone gave me one.

NOT cheap !!!!!!



and DEFINITELY not going to happen.

[C locked]

I concur.it would be xmas. And where did you get this info. About ibm.? I've been trying to find out about the design. And all i've read doesn't mention ibm at all. Of course i cannot find much. Some design documents would be worth it. Of course then i'd have to buy the lock. To lock up the plans.

[plugspin]

The Spike Master II is the name of one tool for popping electronic safes. I've seen Jord Knaap demo it before, works pretty much as previously described.
http://www.locksmithledger.com/article/10228410/essential-tools-for-todays-locksmith?page=4

There is a training video out there that has some info about how the X-07 was designed. I'm guessing it's the same video that was for sale along with an X-07 in this thread http://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8919. It's short but fun.

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

Check out the Kaba Mas X-10.

http://www.kaba-mas.com/kaba-brand/products/553040/x-10.html

As far as I know (not very far , I admit) they cannot be manipulated and are self contained. I believe the electronics were developed by IBM.

Cheers.

Anyone wondered if the US Agencies/DoD use the same firmware on this lock as everyone else gets... or am i just being being paranoid

[GWiens2001]

As far as I know, the US agencies and DOD are the only ones who can get this lock at all. That and those entities who are under contract with the DOD, etcetera.

Gordon

[plugspin]

I've heard from folks who had to use the X-09 and possibly the older models that they broke frequently, at least on ships. My guess is that they have mainly improved reliability.

[C locked]

Gweins,

i'd agree with you about the firmware. I don't think that the encryption on the firmware would be the same as non DOD. But i'd think that it was the DOD using a custom encrypted flash for the firmware. At least i would...

I doubt that you are paranoid. Or if so so am i.

[Neilau]

I concur.it would be xmas. And where did you get this info. About ibm.? I've been trying to find out about the design. And all i've read doesn't mention ibm at all. Of course i cannot find much. Some design documents would be worth it. Of course then i'd have to buy the lock. To lock up the plans.

LSS vol II has a section on the original X-07 and states "The design team consisted of the brightest engineers from IBM, together with a world renowned security expert from the government. In 1991nafter almost three years of development, the X-07 made its debut in government service"

I remembered reading that IBM had something to do with the development. I just looked it up and maybe IBM itself wasn't involved, just some of its engineers. I suppose that looking up the patent would clear this up as Mr Tobias says that "The inventors were granted over thirty patent claims (5061923)".

Go to http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5061923.html and download the patent in pdf format.

Cheers.

[plugspin]

There is also some interesting audio in LSS+ where they claim that Kaba Mas made the first auto-dialer to help promote the succession from Group 1 dials to the X-07 by the DOD.

[PhoneMan]

I've seen the X series on Ebay from time to time, still not cheap. Heck, I've seen whole GSA containers with the X series locks on there too. Being they are Gov surplus, that would be a good way to get one with the DoD encryption. And a safe tech I talked to said they are prone to breakage, as someone else already mentioned.