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EVVA 3KS Tear Down

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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:04 am

EVVA 3KS Tear Down

Got my first EVVA 3KS!!! No key, but I'll try making one eventually. :twisted:

What to do with this lock first? Pick it, of course. Took an hour, but I got it!

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Then tried disassembly, but it would not come apart! Took out this clip, and no joy!

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Thought it a bit, and thought it may require centering the sliders first. Gave it a try...

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Yeah! OK, folks. The sliders need to be centered for the lock to be disassembled. In other words, the key can not be used to take the lock apart!

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Slide the plug forward. The sliders are not spring loaded, but the sidebars are. Keep the lock held with the sliders horizontal to the ground so they are not pulled out of their centered position during removal, or the plug will be stuck in place until the offending slider(s) is(are) re-centered.

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Oldfast, beyond this point, thar be gutshots, matey. So you can stop reading now and move along to another thread with things of more interest to you. :roll: :-D

The plug with all parts held in place. The passive 'sidebar' with the key control bitting is at the side closest to you in this picture. At the top (and bottom) are the sidebars which fit into the back side of the sliders.

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Inside the empty lock cylinder.

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Another view inside the lock cylinder. There are channels for the sidebars at the top an bottom of this picture (because the lock cylinder is held sideways). The channel to the right fits the profile passive sidebar. The other grooves give the sliders a place to move outside the plug. NOTE: The sliders do not, and some will not, be flush with the surface of the plug. Some will hang out with the proper key. This ain't no pin tumbler lock!

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The passive profile sidebar in place, tipped to the right.

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The passive profile sidebar. The top faces away from the key. At the bottom you can see where the edge of the key must be cut for the sidebar to be able to drop into the plug.

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The side of the passive sidebar that fits into the grooves cut into the edge of the key blade.

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The sidebars for the sliders. These are what the sliders work with. Yes, there are two ridges, which fit into slots with a high point in the middle of the 'outside' of the sliders.

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The side view of the sidebars.

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The plug with the slider posts centered in the keyway. Of course, this makes the channels the sidebar fits into not line up. You can see that none of the sliders stick out beyond the plug, so the plug can be removed from the cylinder in this position.

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The sliders are now in the correct position for the sidebar. This is how they would look if the key was inserted, if I had one. Remember, this is only one side of the key. Both sides are used by the key - 2 sidebars and 10 sliders + the passive key profile 'sidebar'. NOTE: The sliders stick out above and below the plug, as well as being centered.

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The sliders most of the way out of the plug. You can see that there are false gates for the sidebars on each slider. This is the side of the slider that determines the key bitting, not the posts the key touches. That means no decoding from visual inspection of the keyway.

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Side view of the sliders. Note that the dual-pin sliders are a little longer than the single-pin sliders. Also, the posts that the key operates are perfectly centered on the sliders. Finally, see that the posts on the single sliders are longer than on the double sliders. This means that the channels for the dual-post sliders are shallower than the channel for the single-post sliders.

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All the sliders from one side levelled at the top. Yes, both single and dual post sliders are used on both sides of the lock, not all singles one one side with doubles on the other side as I had previously suspected. Again, this is possible because of the different post heights on single and double post sliders.

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And the last picture. Used guitar wire to line up the sliders' gates, showing the bitting needed for the key. There are nine positions for single post sliders, and seven positions for dual post sliders.

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Please excuse and correct any incorrect terminology used for parts in this lock. As said before, not a locksmith, just a lock enthusiast, and I have lots to learn. I would appreciate any corrections.

Gordon

P.S. OK, Oldfast, you can come back now. :mrgreen:
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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huxleypig

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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:07 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

Gordon, that is superb! How did you find disturbing already set sliders? Was it an issue? Also, did you use a light to see in there because I know this has helped other folks and it helps me pick the ASSA Desmo (which I see as a baby 3KS).

Great job mate!
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

Disturbing already set sliders was aggrivating as all let out. :evil: After I got it picked, the guy I got it from told me that you can use grease to help prevent the sliders from sliding. Today Squelchtone had an outstanding tip... Turn the lock so the sliders are horizontal to the ground. That way gravity does not move the sliders. He says it is a tip from DESMO locks.

I'll give both tips a try next time I grab the lock. Will also state that it was probably blind luck that I got it picked since with an extra six hours of picking have not picked it a second time.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

And yes, I had a light shining onto white paper behind the lock to see better.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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10ringo10

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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

Nice I have a question as I had to bring it up what type of metal do you think the side bar or posts are made from ! no I thought there not ARE THEY !! HELL NO
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:56 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

Zamak, isn't it?

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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10ringo10

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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:05 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

I Hope its not Gordon !! no side bars no security if you see what I am saying ?????????????? Hell no
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:31 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

Not a metals expert, but it is a cast part, not brass, not affected by a magnet. Strongly suspect Zamak or some similar alloy. And NO, I will NOT take a torch to it to test the melting point!!! :fu: :smile:

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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10ringo10

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Post Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:13 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

:D I agree we don't melt our locks or harm them in anyway !
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huxleypig

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Post Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:43 am

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

If it is ZAMAK then the melting point will be pretty low I think, right?

I've heard of another destructive attack but there's no way I'm trying it on my 3KS!

Most Desmo locks I've seen in the field are mounted sideways anyway but I have heard of using grease before. The tension from the sidebar digging into the sliders should keep them set but you're going to have to come off the tension and it's then that I worry about disturbing others. What pick did you use?

Good luck making a key by the way! That won't be easy...
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10ringo10

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Post Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:45 am

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

I totally agree hp no way id be fcking my lock up to see if it works ! but moving on id be shocked if evva are using this stuff in there locks as it can be melted in

seconds... even over a stove I must get a 3ks some day I have not come across one on the job where 75% of my play locks come from !

I Don't know if the key blanks are restricted for the 3ks or available to buy ...will have to do some checking ! evva only I suspect

great work gordon
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

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Post Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:34 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

huxleypig wrote:If it is ZAMAK then the melting point will be pretty low I think, right?

I've heard of another destructive attack but there's no way I'm trying it on my 3KS!

Most Desmo locks I've seen in the field are mounted sideways anyway but I have heard of using grease before. The tension from the sidebar digging into the sliders should keep them set but you're going to have to come off the tension and it's then that I worry about disturbing others. What pick did you use?

Good luck making a key by the way! That won't be easy...


Used a half diamond. A hook was too difficult to maneuver without moving the other sliders while trying to find the post of one slider. The half diamond was nice as I could use it either forwards or backwards to move the slider.

I do not know what alloy was used, and did not think to check the hardness of the metal with a 'scratch test'. Had not even considered what it was made of until Ringo asked. It did not feel weak, nor did they really show any sign of wear as I would expect from a somewhat soft metal.

Also, I expect making a key will be, as my grandmother once said, "A witch with a capital 'B'". It is way down on my 'to do' list.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:52 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

First off, a huge congrats on a successful pick!! Very nice.

What a gorgeous mechanism, really. BEAUTIFUL job documenting it Gordon. I love it!

Damnit that's it- I'm headed to hit up your feedback page for a second time, lol.
Your consistent contributions to the ever growing library of KP, coupled with
your 'always willing to help anyone' attitude...... that's what it's all about!


.....proceed Sir!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

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Location: Arizona, United States

Post Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: EVVA 3KS Tear Down

Ahh, shucks! It weren't nuthing. :oops: :oops: :oops:

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.

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