Yale OC5, or 0402?
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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
How much larger is the OC5? Are there differences in the internal configuration other than size?
Also, would the OC5 typically use a larger dial, or was this size and style of dial shared just as much between the OC5 and 0402? (The dial is 2 inches)
Thank you.
Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
You'll have to let us know how your spin-session goes with this one.
Personally, I'm rather fond of these locks and Yale's innovative friction-fence.
Ya definitely have an 0402. As you seen (after the fact, lol) stamped on the bolt.
Also notice there's juuust enough room within the lock case to fit the drive cam.
As you said, the 0402, for the most part, is simply a smaller version of the OC5.
Most of the time I don't know much about age/history, but I've always read that
the OC5's were produced for about 20 years, from 1930-1950. So if you see one,
and know it's original to the box it's on, you can assume the safe is somewhere
around 70-90 years old.
Some OC5's had relockers. You'll feel/hear this through the dial @ about 50.
Don't mistake this for a contact point. Instead, it's pretty safe to assume
CP will be found around zero, as Yale was pretty consistent about this.
I'm assuming (but dunno for a fact) that relockers were not installed
in the 0402, simply due to the lack of space within the lock case.
Oh, you asked about dimensions... OC5 lock case: about 2.25" by 3.25".
The drive cam in both locks appear to be of the same diameter. The 0402,
however does have a smaller fence/gear assembly. Mechanically though,
they're basically identical. On the dials: I know both locks will except the
full size dial... whether or not there's a smaller version... I don't know.
Have fun with this one my friend!
Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
Oldfast wrote:You'll have to let us know how your spin-session goes with this one.
Personally, I'm rather fond of these locks and Yale's innovative friction-fence.
I don't know, Mike. I mean, even knowing where the contact point is, and knowing the combination beforehand, I'm unable to detect a consistent enough change in the contact point, if any, from which to deduce a combination number. Even though it is unmounted, the dial ring is rigidly attached to the spindle tube, so that's not the problem. The problems, as far as I can tell, are due to the drag and uneven feeling imparted by the gear drive, and the teensy dial. It's difficult to even find the precise contact point, let alone reading a minute difference on that little dial, as I'm sure you know. Have you been successful manipulating one of these?
As for the dial, I would assume this dial is the small one.
Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
Somthing else I believe you should try is a wasp by Leroy Edenburn. Unfortunately Leroy passed away so you can't buy one but you can make one.
Hawley locks sold a copy for a while but stopped years ago.
It's basically a set of rings that fit different locks, choose the one that fits your dial, slip it over and nip it up, you then have a thin rod that you can screw into the side of these rings. The rod has a weight that can be secured at any point along the rods length altering how much force is put on the dial.
The idea is you find the contact point then slide the weight along the rod until it offers the right fulcrum to stop and rest on it, once you get this balance you can repetitively and quickly turn and find the contact point every time.
The rod can have a point in the end and a sticker put on the box door to mark your scale, the rod obviously amplifies the readings making it a very useful tool.
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
but to be fair, I've NOT spun an 0402. It's quite possible the smaller
fence and smaller dial could pose some difficulties.
Friction fence locks are a different ball game for sure. But they're
well worth your time in getting acquainted with 'em, as they open
the door to many other 'oldie-but-goodie' locks! The OC5, in my
opinion, is a nice intro to the difficult 'oldies' to come - much like
the S&G 6730 serves as an intro to learning manipulation.
As Martin & Visitor mentioned, I too would recommend getting an amp.
And not necessarily for just this lock - but just in general - you're going
to want one. It doesn't have to be a high-end one to be affective either.
$100-150 will get ya a perfectly decent amp. Sometimes an amp can be
useful... other times it's absolutely crucial for an opening.
I'm no authority on friction fences, lol... a handful of locks is practically
no experience at all. But I'm more than happy to tryn' convey what I do
know of spinnin' em. Mount yours up, give it a good spin session, and we
can always talk more about it if you'd like.
L4R3L2 wrote:As for the dial, I would assume this dial is the small one.
I guess so then. Of the Yale dials I have here, all measure 2.5"
Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
Oldfast, have all of the friction fence locks you have manipulated been direct drive? I can't understand how you can get enough feel from the friction fence as it only throws towards the wheel pack in one direction. Can you tell more about it?
The friction fence lock in my National safe has an off set dial which gear drives the wheel pack which then drives the friction fence. It also has the drive wheel for the wheel pack that is slightly larger than the wheel pack so the fence never touches them. Have you seen any larger drive wheels in a direct drive? That and the offset gear drive would seem to thwart the manipulator. But than, I am not a member of that exclusive club.
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
Posts: 4412
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:16 am
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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
In the meantime... on your National; I'm not all that familiar with them, so was curious: Do you have a general idea of the various brands/locks they used throughout their history? This one here looks Yale-made. A Yale 063 1/2 maybe?
Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
It's a 65 1/2 Yale made to work in tandem with the Yale time lock. It is the only one I have seen with the larger drive wheel.
On the Nationals, I have nothing to share. There is very little information on the National Safe and Lock Company available. Even the experts that usually help me out don't have much. I assume they used Yale locks sometimes with their name on the dial as many safe manufactures did. My Moslers are Yale locks branded as Mosler.
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
Posts: 4412
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:16 am
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Re: Yale OC5, or 0402?
00247 wrote:Gee Oldfast, I didn't mean to give you homework. lol
If I wasn't ready for some homework, then what am I doin' here?! lol
Nah, I don't mind at all. Just need to wait for a slow evening here.
00247 wrote:It's a 65 1/2 Yale made to work in tandem with the Yale time lock. It is the only one I have seen with the larger drive wheel.
Well, it's a gorgeous lock. Thanks for putting a name/number to it for me.
The drive cam being larger than the wheels; (I could be wrong) but, I'd say
nearly all friction fence type locks were made with cams that were slightly
larger than the wheels. It has to be in order to keep the fence from riding
against the wheels. Thing is, anytime we see one of these locks nowadays,
it's sure to be very old and very used. This many years slowly reduces the
diameter of the drive cam... sometimes to the point of being the same, or
even smaller than the wheels. This, I think, is why we rarely see a significant
difference between the two. This is also why (and I'll touch on this more later)
it is sometimes possible to actually hear or even feel one or more gates.
00247 wrote:On the Nationals, I have nothing to share. There is very little information on the National Safe and Lock Company available. Even the experts that usually help me out don't have much. I assume they used Yale locks sometimes with their name on the dial as many safe manufactures did. My Moslers are Yale locks branded as Mosler.
In a way, this is kinda comforting and explains why I've been unable to dig
up much dirt on Nationals. On a sidenote: you know what I really miss?...
allexperts com. There was a fella on there by the name of Andy (I think).
That guy was an unbelievable historian on safe companies! What a loss.
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