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What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

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machinist

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Post Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:42 am

What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

I have some keedex carbide bits but I'm tearing through them left and right honestly I find the bosche carbide from home depot of all places extremely effective. Can anyone recommend the brand they like?

I have a redneck homemade lever rig but I'm planning on getting a nice mag drill and going from there.

heres a pick of a kaba slide bolt I took out like a boss. Just wish It didn't take 4 effing bits to get to it.


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GWiens2001

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Post Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

When I need to drill out a hardened steel stud or bolt, I sharpen my drill bits at a nearly flat angle. Then most any decent drill bit will work.

A safe tech I know recommends carbide concrete drill bits. (Which happen to have about the same angle)

Gordon
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jones

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Post Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

I like the Mr Twister safe drill bits that Lockmasters sells. First thing I noticed about using my mini-rig is one drill bit can last through several safe openings. The lever rig allows you to shift the angle the drill bit is at, causing an early demise. Also I like to use a size over the hardplate drill to get through the softer skin of the safe. For example I use a 17/64 regular bit to drill down to the hardplate, then I switch to a 1/4" hardplate bit, that way the drag on the carbide tip is that much less. I have noticed slow rpm's on the drill will really lengthen the amount of time a hardplate bit lasts and also I like to use some tapping fluid to help keep the bit cool. The mini-rig keeps the drill bit soo steady that like I said, I can often use the same bit 3-4 times before one side breaks off.

BTW one thing about the mag drill is I open a lot of the smaller in the floor safes & the mag rig is only good if your safe door is large enough to allow the mag rig to comfortably fit.

Once I started using my mini rig I have never again picked up the lever rig! That thing used to ruin piles of drill bits. As much as good bits cost it was seriously pissing me off...

BTW I also bought a bunch of lockmasters mp3 bits years ago when they first came out cause they were soo cheap, they work just as well as the mr twister bits. I have a few other types of drills in my toolbox but I never got to use them. I keep a pro-lock 1/2" x6" butter bit around, just for luck- only had to use it once to swiss cheese a lil' bastard of a floor safe with it's opening info transposed on the wrong page in my safe book
Last edited by jones on Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mastersmith

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Post Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:14 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

I would never use a good bit with a lever rig. The rig itself will eat bits. When you get a better rig then use better bits. Until then, change your bits often and you can resharpen them. Cheap bits can last a long time as long as you don't stress them beyond help. Do you really care if it takes 6 bits to drill a hole if you can sharpen them and reuse them? Many times? The same holds true with a better rig, so you can continue to use the lesser bits after you upgrade your rig. Get better bits then as they need replacement.
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jones

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Post Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:20 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

My carbide bits always tear off one side, before they get dull & I can usually get 3-4 uses without sharpening before the tip breaks. I do know the bits I use are the cheapest that are sold, so maybe you use a better grade?
I only sharpen my regular drill bits and my spade bits.
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Altashot

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Post Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:17 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

I use carbide tip masonry bits. They work just as good as expensive safe bits once I reshape the carbide.
They cost much less, are more flexible and break less. I've had carbide tip chip, but at times it's actually better when a little piece
chips off, then it cut like crazy. I tried several safe bits from different manufacturers but, I always go back to Home Depot for my masonry bits.
I'm done trying to find the best safe bit.

M.
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Neilau

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Post Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:47 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

Altashot wrote:I use carbide tip masonry bits. They work just as good as expensive safe bits once I reshape the carbide.
They cost much less, are more flexible and break less. I've had carbide tip chip, but at times it's actually better when a little piece
chips off, then it cut like crazy. I tried several safe bits from different manufacturers but, I always go back to Home Depot for my masonry bits.
I'm done trying to find the best safe bit.

M.


Hi Altashot.

What shape do you "reshape" the carbide to and do you put an edge on the carbide ?
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Altashot

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Post Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

When new, masonry bits are not very sharp. It doesn't matter when drilling concrete as it rely on the hammer function of the drill to penetrate.
The carbide tip does not have much cutting action as it there for wear resistance against the abrasive concrete.
They normally come at 118 degree angle, which is fine, I leave it at that angle, but I grind them to give them a cutting edge.
A sharp leading edge and a trailing edge to evacuate the material. It's hard to grind carbide, I use a special dedicated grinding wheel, the green one,
and it still takes a long time. But when I'm done with it, it makes holes through anything.
I sharpened one for a friend that was trying to make a pipe out of a glass Coke bottle, he drilled 2 holes in it without issues.

M.
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machinist

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:17 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

Altashot wrote:I use carbide tip masonry bits. They work just as good as expensive safe bits once I reshape the carbide.
They cost much less, are more flexible and break less. I've had carbide tip chip, but at times it's actually better when a little piece
chips off, then it cut like crazy. I tried several safe bits from different manufacturers but, I always go back to Home Depot for my masonry bits.
I'm done trying to find the best safe bit.

M.



Like I said I find it ridiculous the Bosche 5 pack (the ones in the tube 1/8-1/2) from home depot seems to rip through hard-plate better than stuff I'm buying from real locksmith suppliers. Are these the ones your talking about? I sharpen what I can but the majority if my bits shatter beyond reuse. Do you cut at high speed with these or keep it slower?

One a side note I've always wondered why nobody ever uses solid carbide twist drills, they seem way more durable? Also why nobody has tried to build up friction/heat on a hardplate, I have a machinist background a lot of metals you heat/slowly cool like tempered steel, lose its edge and it becomes way softer especially economy metals. How come nobody just runs a dull bit red hot into the plate to soften it up?



I've got a nice threaded drill post on the way and I'm going to weld some 600lbs mag locks on the sides my goal is to do the worlds first "tilt and lock" drill rig ideally capable of drilling through the dial ring for angle drilling/scoping and just rigidly punching a hole at any random spot I need to defeat the container. -If- it works out I'll be posting some pics and maybe a build up.

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innerpicked

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:34 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

One a side note I've always wondered why nobody ever uses solid carbide twist drills, they seem way more durable?

The reason why nobody uses a solid carbide twist drill for working on safes or any handheld drilling process, it is that they are VERY easy to snap, especially when any sort of side load is on them. They are best suited for use CNC machines.
them.
How come nobody just runs a dull bit red hot into the plate to soften it up?

All you will succeed in doing is destroy that drill bit, and hinder progress. Heat will not transfer in any significant amount from the red hot drill bit to the hard plate. Heat will just make the once hard drill bit softer, and mushroom the end of the drill.
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Altashot

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:35 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

Yes, I've used Bosch and other even cheaper brands, Bosch are good.
I drill at high speed and high pressure. Normally with a tie down strap wrapped around the safe and the drill. I use the ratchet to apply pressure.

The all carbide bits are for use in drill presses only. They do NOT flex at all, they shatter and chip very easily. Just drop a 1/8" bit on a concrete floor and it's in pieces.
Put too much pressure on them and they practically explode.

As for building up heat on the hard plate, with the pressure I put on it, it does get hot, sometimes even red hot.
The problem is that I've gotten some to the point where they started to melt in the hole and seized and twisted off.
You can imagine that drilling a drill bit isn't easy...
I try to keep it reasonably cool enough to prevent that. A combination of drilling and punching seems to weaken the hard plate enough to get through.

I have a threaded drill post rig I hardly ever use. It doesn't tilt though. It too, mounts with rare earth magnets but with enough pressure, they pop off. I used to have to strap the rig down to the safe. Ok, the magnets were not capable of holding 600 lbs, but I wouldn't want them any stronger either, they are dangerous enough as it is. They are strong enough to break a finger or at best give you a nasty blood blister. They also pull tools out of your hands and all the shavings stick to them, which is impossible to completely clean off.
Magnetism is a force that is not felt so it is easy to forget about it and accidents happen quick and with a lot of force. I had my hand pulled to one while I was holding a 1/2" Allen wrench, the back of my hand got all cut up from the sharp shavings that were already stuck to it.
Other things I don't like about it is that it take too long to unscrew to check the depth of the hole, change bit or to clean out the shavings.
You can't shine a flashlight in the hole or punch the hard plate because the rig is in the way. To do this, the rig must be dis-assembled, and re-installing it exactly at the same place is time consuming.

I've used other rigs too, but liking the KISS principle, I stick to my tie down strap whenever possible.

I don't want to discourage you from building your rig but these are my observations and I wanted to raise some points to consider, notably the danger associated with strong magnets.

M.
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jones

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:54 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

I have learned to increase the pressure I put on the drill bits & go slow with the drill, in order to keep the heat down. Before I got my mini rig I used to go through 2-4 drill bits on a normal job, using my drill rig I can get 3-4 openings per drill bit, before the edge chips off. Last time I had some hard plate that seemed too hard, I just took my punch and hammer and softened it up real good with a beating.
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machinist

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:49 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

Altashot wrote:Yes, I've used Bosch and other even cheaper brands, Bosch are good.
I drill at high speed and high pressure. Normally with a tie down strap wrapped around the safe and the drill. I use the ratchet to apply pressure.

The all carbide bits are for use in drill presses only. They do NOT flex at all, they shatter and chip very easily. Just drop a 1/8" bit on a concrete floor and it's in pieces.
Put too much pressure on them and they practically explode.

As for building up heat on the hard plate, with the pressure I put on it, it does get hot, sometimes even red hot.
The problem is that I've gotten some to the point where they started to melt in the hole and seized and twisted off.
You can imagine that drilling a drill bit isn't easy...
I try to keep it reasonably cool enough to prevent that. A combination of drilling and punching seems to weaken the hard plate enough to get through.

I have a threaded drill post rig I hardly ever use. It doesn't tilt though. It too, mounts with rare earth magnets but with enough pressure, they pop off. I used to have to strap the rig down to the safe. Ok, the magnets were not capable of holding 600 lbs, but I wouldn't want them any stronger either, they are dangerous enough as it is. They are strong enough to break a finger or at best give you a nasty blood blister. They also pull tools out of your hands and all the shavings stick to them, which is impossible to completely clean off.
Magnetism is a force that is not felt so it is easy to forget about it and accidents happen quick and with a lot of force. I had my hand pulled to one while I was holding a 1/2" Allen wrench, the back of my hand got all cut up from the sharp shavings that were already stuck to it.
Other things I don't like about it is that it take too long to unscrew to check the depth of the hole, change bit or to clean out the shavings.
You can't shine a flashlight in the hole or punch the hard plate because the rig is in the way. To do this, the rig must be dis-assembled, and re-installing it exactly at the same place is time consuming.

I've used other rigs too, but liking the KISS principle, I stick to my tie down strap whenever possible.

I don't want to discourage you from building your rig but these are my observations and I wanted to raise some points to consider, notably the danger associated with strong magnets.

M.


Oh I agree magnets can be extremely dangerous but I'm talking about electro magnets such as a commercial door locking systems, they are surprisingly controllable flip the power on and you have 1200lbs flip it off and you have a paperweight really fun to play with and they actually have a "directional" quality to them with a built in timed metal proximity sensor, they literally don't "grab" when power is applied. I've installed a dozen or so for commercial locksmithing purposes. Keep in mind I hit the off button and I can drag my rig to the side in a second and sure it may take me 1 minute to align it perfectly again but its totally mobile.

Do you have rule of thumb about punching? every fraction of an inch or so? When you stop getting chips? large as the bit or smaller?

I'm going to order up some carbide bits on fleabay
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jones

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:46 pm

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

You might find the bits you want for less money at ENCO. They sell machinist equipment (800)use-enco
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Altashot

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Post Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:19 am

Re: What brand of safe drilling bits do you use?

Of course!!! Mag locks! I hadn't even thought of that.
That would certainly be safer than permanent magnets and they're low voltage too.
Great idea, Lock_Jockey!

M.
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