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Safe Talk, with Altashot.

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oldlock

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Familiar Face

Posts: 194

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:10 am

Post Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

innerpicked wrote:Might be a stupid question, why not use a mag drill? No sore arms.


Or even better buy a mini-rig.
Bramah Australasia
http://www.bramah.com.au

The above link has been approved by the site admin.
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Altashot

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Posts: 419

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:32 am

Location: Western Canada

Post Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:52 pm

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

A few days ago, an new customer inquired about a combination change on a vault door...
I asked the few mandatory questions...Just to know what I was going to be dealing with.
A few minutes later, I knew that their vault was a Securifort, class 2, burglary and fire resistant.
The gentleman on the phone was well educated on the type of vault and the kind of lock he had installed on that door.
he gave me more details than I cared to know and from what he said, I was pretty sure he had an 8500 series S and G lock.
(The 8500 lock is a 3 wheel combination with a manipulation proof fence. Once the combo is dialed, the dial must be pressed in at 0 to release the fence lever.)
"Ok", I said, "I'll be there later this morning".
Upon my arrival, I found out that they are a pharmaceutical distributor and they use the vault to store narcotics.
The combination change went well but they raised an issue regarding the dial and ring. Health Canada did not approve of it.
Health Canada had requested that they have a spy-proof dial and dial ring. The thing is, they already had one. It was, in fact a
Sargent and Greenleaf spy-proof dial and ring. Funny how Health Canada was ok with it every year since the facility was built in 2006, but now, in 2014, they are no longer satisfied with the dial...? Weird.
I did some research, looked in catalogs and inquired with distributors to find some kind of shield. None were available for this dial.
I've seen shields in some banks that they had made with cardboard and magnets, but Health Canada was not going to approve a cardboard and magnet rig.
I had to come up with something better and here is what I fabricated.

http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Altas ... f%20shield

This is only a prototype, to show my client. He is happy with it, and hopefully, Health Canada will be too. Now waiting to hear from them to know if it was approved.
I painted it black to match their vault door but I left the inside gray primer to allow more light to reflect so that it's not too dark to see the numbers.
It also works with Lagard dials and the Asian knock offs.

M.
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Daggers

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Location: Florida, US

Post Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:58 pm

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Wow, nice work! That's a great solution
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flywheel

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Post Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Altashot, you do good work and all, and I don't want to nitpick or anything, but...where is the retinal scanner?
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Location: Canada

Post Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:41 pm

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Interesting solution. I wonder just how Health Canada thinks spy-proof stock dials and rings can get :lol: I know there are some Kromer locks with completely enclosed dials that only have a small plastic window that you can see a few numbers through but getting one would be quite the pain.
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:15 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

There is always the X-07/X-09 where the numbers can only be read from the top, Riy.

Altashot - that is a nice design. Simple (in theory), yet well made. Always look forward to your posts.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

Posts: 2017

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Location: Canada

Post Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:41 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Well, a new X-09 runs around $1,000+ which is a really expensive solution to their problem :(
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:43 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Beautiful work Alta! Love the looks of it.
I'm sure the final one will look even nicer.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Mikeh727

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Location: Webb, Iowa, USA

Post Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:11 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Beautiful work Alta...that's a great solution. You've got some amazing skills! Thanks for sharing your work with us.

-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
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Altashot

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Posts: 419

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:32 am

Location: Western Canada

Post Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:56 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Thanks Guys for the nice comments.
They had to have it done by the 24th of August, so I should hear from them soon.
I remember some dial covers that fit some top read and some were also made for front read dials. The Banks were using them. Can't remember who made them
and couldn't find any. I remember how hard they were to dial too. With such a small window, it was impossible to watch the numbers whiz by the index so it was
really easy to pass them, people hated those covers and most of them went "missing", I never see them anymore.

Retina scanners! LOL!
Come on :razz:
I'm a serious locksmith and safe tech, I believe that mechanical locks are still the first line of defense and they are here to stay...And so am I! :razz:
I leave these electronic gadgets and gizmos to the IT or alarm guys, I don't have time to mess with them thingnies when I have work to do. :razz:

M.
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Altashot

Active Member

Posts: 419

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:32 am

Location: Western Canada

Post Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:17 pm

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

I know, I know, it's been a loooong time...

Update. Health Canada did approve the shield I made, so,
the pharmaceutical distributor bought the prototype.
Done deal!


Now, let me tell you about
a vault lock out.

I got a call from another locksmith, he was at the bank, trying to get that door opened.
He said: "M, I've got a problem. Both combs are spun off but the handle wont turn."
I asked if the timelock maybe was over wound, he said: "Y'know, I put my lock amp on the door but I
can't hear the timelock at all...I think a re-locker is fired..."
Oh sh*t! I hate fired re-lockers, especially on a Bank Vault Door...

The Bank did not want the door drilled, they preferred having the wall cored.
Their thinking was that they don't want the door damaged and repaired
because that could be visible, and coring the wall from and adjacent room,
one that the public can't access, would not.

We made arrangements and I was to drive out there the next day.

Coring concrete is dirty work so I sub-contracted professional concrete cutters.
Upon my arrival, the cutters were at it.
Image
Image
I looked at the door, it's a Chubb, both combs are spun off but the handle won't turn...
Image
Image
Image
I knew the coring would take a while and it was just about lunch time, so, I went the the little eatery next door
and had lunch. By the time I got back there, the coring was done.
This is what I was left with. An 18" hole through the 16" thick wall.
Image
All I had to do was to break through the dry wall...Or so I though.
Image
It turned out that the hole was bored half behind a cupboard and half behind a safe...
Damn! this was going to be the hole I'd have to crawl through.
I don't know who told the concrete cutting guys to drill there but, too late now, that's where the hole is.
So, I broke through the drywall and the plywood cupboard with a variety of tools and was able to crawl in.
I had to empty all my pokets, remove my suspenders and hope I wouldn't lose my pants while squeezing in.
I'm not what you would call a BIG guy; 5-10", 200 lbs, but years of indulging in my favorite drink
created what we call....A beer belly. :shock:
I knew I had to stay calm squeezing through there because if I was to start panicking while I'm in there, I'd most definitely get stuck.
I kept my cool.
It was a pretty tight squeeze, my back against the flat and my rounded gut towards the rounded hole, my pants did come down a bit as I sucked in my gut but it
gave my waist a little more room.
Finally, I was in.
Image
I can't believe I fit through that hole. It sure made a mess inside the vault too.
Image
Next, I turned towards the locked door, the bolts are all out so, indeed, it's locked.
Image
I had to remove the heat sensor as to not damage it before I could open the back panel.
Image
Once I opened the back panel, this is what I saw.
The timelock is at 0, so, unlocked...
Image
...both locks are unlocked and the re-locker is indeed fired.
It's the part with a rod attached to it towards the bottom right.
The other half of the rod is laying at the bottom of the door.
Image
Close up of the re-locker in the locked position.
Image
This is the same re-locker in the unlocked or normal position.
Image
The rod coming off the re-locker attaches to a pivot point on the right and the other rod that was at the bottom of
the door is on the left...
Image
The rod to the left, after passing behind both lock bolts, hooks here.
Image
Here's a bigger picture so you can see how the rods work.
Image
You now can see that if one lock bolt gets punched off how the top rod gets knocked off the hook,
thus releasing tension on the pivot which in turns release the bottom rod to which the re-locked is attached
thus firing it.
Here is the whole thing in their normal or un-fired position.
Image
Here was the problem. A stretched spring. The re-locked spring was too weak to keep
the tension high enough to hold the top rod on it's hook. Closing the door a little too
hard probably release the top rod from the hook and.....Fired the re-locker.
Here's the picture of the stretched out spring versus the one I installed.
Image
And that was it, the door was fixed...But wait, there is still a hole in the vault's wall...
I cut a round plug of plywood to close the inside end of the hole, drilled hole in the concrete to
attach pieces of rebars...
Image
...And partially covered the outside of the hole.
Image
In the garbage can, is a fast set concrete that I mixed and shoveled in the hole.
Image
Every now and then, I hit the particle board with a hammer to settle the concrete and remove air bubbles.
Once full, I put another board to fully cover the hole.
Image
Now all that was left to do was to fix the drywall, which the Bank was going to look after.
We were done.

I say we because the local locksmith, the one that called me, stayed with me all day and help
though-out the entire thing. really nice guy.
He gave me "a tour" of his service vehicle. I thought it was pretty cool.
Image
An old ambulance...Pretty cool set-up in there!

Hope you enjoyed!

M.
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flywheel

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Posts: 650

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:08 pm

Location: USA

Post Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:03 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Awesome! :hbg:
This is my favorite KP thread.
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MBI

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Site Owner

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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:25 am

Location: Utah, USA

Post Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:18 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

Whoa, dude.
That is one incredible post.
Seriously neat.
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Neilau

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Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 4:29 am

Location: Australia

Post Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:29 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

:agree:

I love looking at the lockworks in safe doors.

That's quite a job and lucky the hole missed the small safe by "just enough".

Thanks for sharing
Clark's Law (Arthur C)

For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.
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LocksportSouth

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Posts: 369

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:51 am

Location: UK

Post Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:08 am

Re: Safe Talk, with Altashot.

That is very, very cool. I love safe/vault stuff :). Thanks for sharing!
Kinda scary how easy it was to drill through the vault wall though :o... Maybe they should get that looked at!
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